Foreign Degrees are they worth it ? debate

Agreed Pramod that Indian education particularly professional degrees need a revamp, but what about the craze for foreign degrees without  a guarantee or placement opportunity at those universities.  I can imagine the plight of parents who shell out nearly 25 lakhs by borrowing at interest rate of 13% and can t get a decent job for their ward.  Just imagine the repayment burden which amounts to almost 40 k per month for 7 years.

All grads do not have practical knowledge, hands-on experience, etc.- except if you have worked before joining a college. I don't see the point of this thread TBH. Umeshji answered his own questions which seals it:

Just imagine shelling out 20 to 50 lakhs for a certificate without guarantee of jobs abroad. 

Hello Roshan, people have different takes on the subject matter, some want foreign degrees because parents feel that they have provided the best education.  Secondly the herd mentality of a classmate going abroad and he does not to miss out etc.  I want to elicit different responses, it is crucial for correcting our mindset on foreign education.

I think its a personal choice, more than anything else... If you have money, and the parents and the concerned student will weigh the pros and cons before making the decision...

Hello DS, i believe it is better to revamp Indian education system inviting foreign faculties and get exposure for a month in practical internship or apprenticeship or summer training whatever term one wants to designate.  It will cost maximum Rs 5 lakhs including air tickets, visa, stay and paying the industry too.

Not really sure how people can justify 10-20 lakhs on a toilet degree. Even parents of the rich kids won't spend that much unless the college has a reputation- a real one.

People who have a lot of money are usually the ones who think a lot of its usefulness before investing- unless 1 is from a spoilt useless background. Usually its the middle-to-upper-middle-class-ish who go for Toilet degrees. That's why colleges like IIPM earn lot of money. As long as the college that you're going to (including international ones) are government body recognised (relevant one) and has a decent track record of employment, provided you can cough up the money its all good.

Yeah but the paygrade for IIMs is substancial and you get easy education loans for IIMs at special rate and covers about 70-85% approx. I think its SBI but the IIM's paygrade is high that after passing out the student can pay it off very easily in 4-6 months. Even if you look at NMIMS, Jamanlal bajaj and all, you get pretty good pay packages. People I know who did management from MET with 1-2 year of work got about 60-80k paygrade in average, same goes for welingkar. Paying the fees is not the issue if you are able to get through these colleges. We're not talking about our well-established college here though.Many colleges in foreign countries are not government recognised. You'll see them around in educational expos and all. People who cannot get into a normal college- or don't want to- go to a firangi college. Many don't care, as long as its an international degree. that's why we have such lame colleges using names of unheard colleges from other countries. You'll never see NYU or state universities doing international educational expo- because real studies who want to get the most of it knows which college is which.

Even Dalmiya college gets placement from TCS in mumbai, so the overall placement scenario is quite good.   The salary package of around 50K is guaranteed even in the worst of times.  But repaying in 4 to 6 months is not possible Roshan.  EMI @ 3 K per month per lakh works out 45 k per month for 15 lakhs loan dear Roshan

IIM grads get far better jobs than TCS and far higher paygrades, even if you see the average paygrade. I am not talking about NMIMS and all that. That is a different scene, but you still get good pay package that you can pay without much effort within 2 years.

Agreed with Sorc, thats right...

this reminds me of a famous person, who said I pay the fees to the university for my son's education, but he gets all his teachings from his friends. 

Pramod you sow he reaps Lolz.  As parents we are helpless, one of my friends son wanted to be a pilot.  It was a passion for which dad had to sponsor or stand guarantor for 20 lakhs loan.  He had to undertake due diligence, hope the airline industry picks up.

By the way, there are handful of individuals who work for computer level RnD work who haven't received formal education about it. Its a fact. As far as RnD in consumer electronics goes, many of them hire designers who have basic electronic skills and they earn very good money. A lot of them end up knowing about engineering and RnD know-how eventually. Especially computers. A lot of people who have found out stuff like hacking, jailbreaking, overclocking, bios forcing, cross bios flashing, Voltage modifications are the guys who are doing this well before getting a technical degree (or not getting one). Ofcourse, getting your work to be known is tough but hey! Which work isn't?

Similarly one of my relative went to Russia for MBBS and came back and started boasting.   I believe medical education in Russia is below Indian standard but still he managed to get rid of the stigma because of deep pockets.  He is now well settled after being rescued by well wishers.

If you're paying fees worth 20 lakhs, its common sense that the jobs that are getting out of such degrees/colleges is of high income- very good for starters. How is it a burden in that case? A child passes out of the college, gets a good job for starters, I think educational loans give you minimum 6 months of relief from the time of graduation- or something like that. So if the child is getting that degree, parents are getting that loan- the child can pay off that loan from his own salary. What are you guys trying to say: the child can't pay for his own educational loan that's benefitting him in long term? Even if you catch 2-3 years, its not a burden. How can it be a burden unless the degree doesn't fetches good jobs/money???? If it doesn't, why do parents spend 20 lakhs like an idiot??? There are some parents who save money throughout their lives. I am pretty sure for such people they can spare off atleast....5-10 lakhs for 3-5 years of education of their child?? The child is generating good money and will generate a lot of money as he progresses? I am sorry, am I the only 1 here who thinks that this is a burden? If the degree is useless and if parents forced a child to do something he couldn't, that's the parent's fault. People have a common tendency to blame the system if they have shelled out money without applying brains and doing research.

Hello Roshan, I am not questioning that the ward will not be able to pay off the loan, but with the current job scenario, the salaries are diving southwards, i afraid the jobs what they are getting will result in salaries lower than their EMI.  In some cases the ward are likely to default that is when the parent may have to sell off their collateral security to pay of the EMI or loan.  It has happened in some cases.  If one gets seat on merit or scholarship abroad, that is the best thing to happen.   Otherwise none of the high paying or spending foreign degrees are worth it.

Umeshji, you are absolutely right that education in india has become unaffordable. Yes the fees of private colleges are insane. But according to me india is still balanced in the fees and job payment equation. Better the college more the fee but better the coll also better payment. Like my college fee 16k per year for BE in IT engg(well it is gov coll and in GOA everything gov provided is insanely cheap, i even get all the years books to use for free). And if i pass all the years by keeping a 60% average i will still get a ~20-25k job. So i will be able to pay off my education fee in less than 4months maybe. And if we take look at other degrees like MBA, my brother is doing MBA and his full fee is like 4lakhs. He got loan instantly. He is confident that he will get a job with minimum 6-7lakh pakage so he will pay off the fee in under a year. Also mostly all the degrees india pay off the fees under a year.

The real problem is for people studing in foreign universities. Like in USA it will cost 40-50lakhs to get a good degree. You can easily pay it off if your degree is imp like engg, pharmaceutics or financial sector. But if the degree is in some absurd field like humanities, literature, archeology or some other fields than god help you. I once met a man on the internet who after wasting some 50lakhs got a phd in "history of black revolution" and now he cant find a job related to the field. These was one of the main issue in the occupy wallstreet protest. Well indians are sensible in that they mostly go to foreign countries to get important degrees like in engg or med or other financial courses. Those who go for humanitarian studies go on scholorships provided by indian gov. 

So i would say the state in india is still a bit stable but it can soon take a turn for worse if we dont put some limitations on the private colleges in india.

I never heard an MBA from a recognised college- a really good college- usually the ones where you end up spending 3-6lakh for entire degree period fetching a job for 20-25k only. NMIMS students itself get minimum 7-11 lakh per annum by average (but their standards) via college placements. If you're following the trends, there's a very insignificant hike in pay package between the passouts of this term and the previous one- but its not falling down. You might want to check up on that. If its a useless college charging so much then that's a stale mate. why would parents so much money on a TOILET degree???

@soc

Absolutely right, today mostly all the MBA people from good college get a 5 lakh package minimum. 

Good thing about Indian banks (atleast state bank and such bank types, not talking about private) is that they give education based on your previous qualifications and which college you're joining. If its a good college and your passed records suggest that you can pass out with flying colours and the degree is worth it, you got the loan. If its a very good college I believe they offer lesser (not that much, but yeah) interests too.

We need more engineers. But we need REAL engineers- not those types who get into engineering just to get a management/banking/finance job.

Frankly india has no top IT colleges in india. The IIT doesnt even rank in the Top 100 (universities let alone college) in the world. So if u want some really top notch education you can go to outside uni. But if you see the FEE and job Payment equation in India, it  has better options.

Do let me know where I've said that ;). If you think about it, I haven't associated any foreign degree in particular as toilet degrees.

Degrees from colleges with no established recognised from their government/nationalised education institutions are toilet degrees- irrespective of which country it is from. After that, it all varies on the college's reputation, value and long term career path. They are made for those to impress and pull in those desperate people who want to throw away a money so that they can hang a piece of paper on the wall- irrespective of the country and their lifestyle. All middle-high class do it. We have a lot of them over here as well, let alone foreign countries.

But fooling the people here is much easier. A lot of parents/student don't research properly if its recognised/private or not as long as it has a fancy name on it that gives an idea to others that they have studied from abroad. They spend 20-25 lakhs, go there and realize that way of life is expensive and they cant burden their parents so they work as waiters and all. That's not really a problem, but when you're taking so much pain to come back to your country in a false hope you will get a great job and then you get (by their standards) mediocre jobs, they're depressed. They try to get a foreign job. Nothing happens, so they do something and end up working in UAE/Dubai or something like that. Do note: I said "a lot". Not everyone does it, I hope you will see that next time :).

Ram Singh generally all these foreign education which is promoted in India is generally through education counsellors and so called agents or franchisees.  I believe around 30 to 40% are knocked off by them in name of facilitating air travel, visa arrangements, bank loan processing and accomodation etc.  If 20 lakhs is total investment almost 8 lakhs is gone in this fashion.  The quality of education is questionable when you pay for it.  In case it is a merit or scholarship seat than it is welcome because genuinely the college has recognised or wants to retain its standards.  Even than Accomodation and airfares may not be taken care.  Ultimately after one passes out only 5 to 10% are lucky to get decent paying jobs abroad, and in when they return to India it is frustration galore for the parents and the ward.  That is the issue one has to grapple with by 90% who seek foreign degrees.

Suffice to say we have lot of enough idiots in this to fall for this everytime. Tch. We always fall for the oldest trick in the book.