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Microsoft attorneys want my domain names, should I give up?

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Tony John
from Kerala |

I received legal notice from Microsoft attorneys claiming my website domains include Microsoft trademarks "Windows" and "Silverlight" and so those domains should be transferred to Microsoft. Of course, there are much more details in the legal notice, but that is the essence of it.

The domains in question are:

www.MyWindowsClub.com

www.SilverlightClub.com

There are few other domains also included in the list, but they are not popular sites, so I am not really concerned about it, even though I had lot of ambitious plans with those domains (Example: Windows8Laptops.com)

GoDaddy has locked out the domains after the attorneys sent the legal notice. I worked last few years on the above sites and it has reached about 60,000 page views per day. Should I simply give up and shutdown my business? 

I could beg Microsoft and seek the options to keep the domains, but should I do that and then live at the mercy of Microsoft?

Should I use the next few days available to transfer the traffic to another domain?

Should I file a counter law suit and prevent GoDaddy from transferring my domains to Microsoft, atleast for somemore time?

Any suggestions from experts would be highly appreciated.

Replies 1 to 19 of 19

Tony John
from Kerala |

I looked at the domain disputes history. Microsoft has won almost every case with the trademarks in domain names.

DS
from Mumbai |

They have the money to hire the best in the business so they will probably pull off every case. I dont know what you can do but it does not sound good to me.
All the best.

Animesh
from Mumbai |

This is wierd. 

Tony John
from Kerala |

Take a look here:

http://domains.adrforum.com/decision.aspx

Microsoft has won almost all cases of similar domain disputes. After reading a documentation, I learnt nobody can use a trademarked name in domain names, which include Excel, Word, Office, Microsoft, Apple, iPad, Android, Google, Dell, BillGates, Windows and so on...

DS
from Mumbai |

So this seals it in their favor...

RioZee
from Out of this yEt in this World |

You should put up criminal case in India on Microsoft and implicate bill gates on it. Here a good lawyer can do it on percentile share basis too. Whatever booty you get, he shares 50/50, you don't have to pay a dime on case.

RioZee
from Out of this yEt in this World |

Once bill gates gets a summon to just appear in court, he will cough up anything u wish

Chaitanya Kulkarni
from Mumbai |

never give up, Indian courts do favor pirates, im sure they can favor you fair and square. using influence/name for the sake of it isnt tolerated in Indian courts. jus coz ur microshit dsnt mean you an threaten people. 

Chaitanya Kulkarni
from Mumbai |

and yeah we have a multi-millionaire simply with intelligent domains < $$$$

umesh derebail
from Mumbai |

In case you decide to proceed legally, you should have a lawyer with high integrity otherwise he or she will sell out eventually.  This is where the pitfall is, if you decide to proceed legally.   In case you spend money to hire a lawyer than you will be sucked dry and helpless with more demands coming in as years pass by.  Remember at your cost somebody might get the publicity and money and you will be left high and dry.  It might help if you have media and trust worthy battery of lawyers preferably an upcoming lawyer who wants to establish himself in the profession.  Good luck, please weigh the pros and cons before proceeding.  Most of the cases are decided on precedents.

umesh derebail
from Mumbai |

No need of 10% commission Lolz.  It is a free legal opinion Smile

Ranjith
from hyderabad |

I have heard a similar thing happen with the author of Daily Blog Tips. He has started a website whose name he had to uyltimately change because someone holds the trademark of that name. And in that case, that name isn't as popular as MicroSoft but he had given up and gone in for an alternative name. The website in that case was new and transferring it to a different domain name wouldn't mean too much of a loss but in your case, it might amount to a great loss. As far as my knowledge, when someone holds the trademark of a name, no one else can use it for their own benefit. For example, you cannot establish a computer manufacturing company with the name DELL as it is already owned by someone else. So, I think that the same would apply here too. Moreover the name of your website too gives the impression that it is an official one. Since you have already m,entioned that Microsoft has won almost all cases in the past similar to the current one, it is better to come to a compromise. Why not register a new domain and redirect the current one to the new domain. You would not be losing any SEO. This is only my advice. I suggest that you consult a legal advisor so that you do not take the wrong path. I wish that everything would end well. Smile

Tony John
from Kerala |

Thanks to everyone for the advice. I am looking at all options and I think my best bet is move to a new domain.

Tony John
from Kerala |

I mentioned earlier that the reason behind this is my articles exposing some security holes. That may or may not be true. It is a fact that I was contact by Microsoft people justifying their side, but it may or may not be the reason for this domain disputes. I suspect that this is the reason behind the domain dispute because there are hundreds of similar sites with similar names. Many such sites are promoted by Microsoft as 'community sites' etc. I was a Microsoft MVP for few years and these sites were included in my credits to get the MVP award.

Rumbaho.com
from Hyderabad |

1. Engage a lawyer immediately.

2. Stop talking about MS intentions in a public forum. You do not know what is in their mind just like you do not know what is in ANYONE's mind. Don't be a mindreader.

3. Discuss with your lawyer and if he feels it is a good idea then speak to the MS people in presence of the lawyers of both sides and see if you come to an understanding.It may be just one comment that has triggered this problem. So, cross your bridge when you come to it.

4. As suggested above, work on your backup plans by having another domain ready and tell MS that you are willing to do that as long as you do not lose on SEO.

5. If you have ANYTHING that supports piracy on your website, remove it now. No site can get anything positive in the courts if it supports piracy openly.  If any random user has, even anonymously, mentioned something about piracy, you MUST either delete the comment or thread AND ban the person (if possible).

6. If you are running a help forum, put up a message that your 'website is in no way affiliated with MS, nor endorsed by MS and is an independent forum/website' up in the header in clear writing for anyone to see.

7. If you move to a new domain,  make it a celebration by mentioning it in your header ith something like "silverlightclub' has an awesome new address 'xyzabc.com'. Put baloons and stuff to make it feel like great news.

8. Try to resolve this calmly and peacefully.  Do not get bullied, but do not act tougher than you are. It is better for them to allow the redirect for some time before you hand over. 

9. In case you are redirecting,  ask for as much time as possible before you handover the domain to them. 

10. TRY to negotiate for a mention of your new address on their website as a recommended site or forum. Tell them you love their products and always want the best for them. 

11. Be humble but firm in clarifying that you have no ill-intentions and would always look out for the interests of MS henceforth.

12. Lastly, in the immortal phrase given by Doublas Adams in his Hitchhiker's guide... Don't Panic :o)

Tony John
from Kerala |

Rumbaho.com,

Thank you for your very valuable advice.

Madhur Chadha
from Hyderabad |

If you have a clear cut thing specifying that you are not affiliated to MS,i think atleast you make yourself a lil safe

Talking about MS owning it,i think this is a can of Worms

There are 1000s of Non MS sites that have stuff like silverlight and microsoft and even sharepoint in their domain names. 

But as pointed out earlier Microsoft has won every case . 

Get a good lawyer is all we all can say and dont give up without a good fight.

A Bad PR is something MS might want to avoid

Neeraj Rawat
from Delhi |

@Tjohn

I guess even if they have the trademark for windows its not related in case of domains,yeah no one can use their trademark locally but as far as I am updated it shouldnt be related to domain names.Godaddy is famous for losing domains the time I read about nodaddy.com.I moved my many domains from them but still using few with them as its the biggest registrar.But Sorcerer is right they will pay you incase you wish to sell these domains they cant grab it from you.I read Facebook and Apple also paid a lot in many countries to get the desired websites owned by someone else.

You already registered SpiderWorks Technologies Pvt Ltd crosscheck with the person if you can get the trademark for windowsclub if it doesnt violate the trademark of windows,may be help you anyhow

umesh derebail
from Mumbai |

In case you manage to get trademark registration on widowsclub and silverlight than you have a good case to fight for.  If not it is better not to go the legal route, advisable to shift to a new domain and create your niche.   Any legal case in India takes a long time to decide, it requires money power to sustain.

Tony John
from Kerala |

I would never be able to get a trademark for WindowsClub or Silverlight. I used those names in my domains only because those are popular technologies and my sites are based on those technologies. Obviously, I have a case if common sense is applied. If a shop is selling furniture, it is obvious that it will choose a name that include furniture or something similar in it. If a shop is selling stationaries, it would probably use the word "stationeries"  in the name board. I think it is the same case here. If I provide information on Microsoft Windows, I see nothing wrong in using the name "Windows" in my nameboard. 

I have used my contacts at Microsoft and trying to get their attention to this matter to see if they want me to continue running this Windows Shop. If they don't respond by end of today, I will move over to a generic name and keep moving.

Neeraj Rawat
from Delhi |

You wont be able to get the trademark for silverlight and windows offcourse but you can check windows club just to cut everything short you can simply move to a different domain with the same content I guess and after few days you would be up and running fine

Tony John
from Kerala |

I have some updates. The 3 month long domain dispute has come to a happy end. I hired some good cyber lawyers in India and dealt with it. At the end, based on a joint request by me and Microsoft, National Arbitration Forum dismissed the UDRP complaint by Microsoft. As part of the deal, I will retain my domain MyWindowsClub.com but handed over the other domains I had reserved to Microsoft.

However, I decided to stick with my new domain name and I have no plans to go back to MyWindowsClub.com

Ranjith
from hyderabad |

A few days back, I came accross a page on Wordpress which says that one is not allowed to have the word 'wordpress' in one's domain since Wordpress holds the trademark for it. Doesn't the same apply to Microsoft...

Ranjith
from hyderabad |

And congrats too.... Smile

Tony John
from Kerala |

Of course Wordpress can say anything they want, just like I can say no one can use the word "John" in their domain names. 

I learnt few things through this dispute. Let me share what I learnt:

For a company to file a UDRP complaint on a domain name, it has to prove 3 points:

1. The company owns trademarks and legal rights on the name.

2. The other company does not have any trademark and legal rights on the name.

3. Company has to prove that the other company is using the domain name in bad faith.

The first 2 points are easy to prove. But when it comes to "bad faith", the company has to prove that the other company is using it in a manner that confuse consumers with the original product.

Some examples:

I can have a site called "wordpressreleases.com" and talk about press releases and so on... if I don't talk about the product "wordpress", the company cannot complain at all.

I can have sites with the names wordpressreviews.com, wordpresstutorials.com, wordpresstips.com, mywordpress.com etc and talk about the wordpress product. As long as I do make it clear in the site that it is not a word press official site and I add a disclaimer saying "wordpress is a trademark of Wordpress Inc...", I can go for it. 

In my case, I had two strong words "my" and "club" that clearly distinguish the site from an official Windows site.

However, if I register sites like wordpressofficial.com, officialwordpressdownload.com etc, I can get in to trouble.

Also, blocking several domains with the aim of preventing the original trademark owner can also come under "bad faith" use.

Ranjith
from hyderabad |

Kaspersky throws a trojan warning when trying to access wordpresstutorials.com Surprised

Hope that you don't own it...

Tony John
from Kerala |

I could be wrong, but this is what I read while researching on my own case. If I have a domain name _____sucks.com, it comes under free speech and I can express my opinion on any product/brand/trademark. The rule is, I cannot mislead the consumers and make them believe that the site is somehow associated the original trademark. I can have a site called WindowsReviews.com and write reviews on Windows, as long as I make it very clear that the site is not associated with Microsoft and have proper disclaimers. Microsoft will go for a complaint only if they have a strong case to win.

Shalu Sharma
from Patna, Delhi |

Interesting story. I am afraid you have no choice. I suggest you put a notice saying your story on your blog. Get some sympathy and get others on board. I run a social site called YouBihar, what it YouTube comes along and says, you are in violation. You might wish to read the story of Mike Rowe who set up a website called MikeRoweSoft.com. The website is now redirected to Mikrosoft. 

Tony John
from Kerala |

Cybersquatting is completely different from running sites with the real names. If you register a site called Mikrosoft.com or microwsoft.com, it will come under cybersquatting and will not be allowed.

However, if you run a site called www.MyOpinionAboutMicrosoft.com or MyWindowsComputer.com, you will win the case, provided you are not trying to trick others as an official Windows site.