Using correct English on our Blogs & Pronunciation

Can you share an example, including an certain explanation that could help bloggers clearly? 

'Its' means belongs to 'it' and 'it's' means 'it is.' / improper punctuations / mixing up US and British English spellings (choose one) / tons of homophones getting mixed up (notice the n - it's not a typo for b) / Overall "Amish Tripath" style of writing (headache inducer) / "Thank you" is always two words.

haha, I hear you Arindam! I am yet to start reading Amish, but his book is 3rd on my list. 

Beside and Besides: Beside means close to or next to, while besides means in addition to or apart from. So you can say "come and sit beside me." But "come and sit besides me" is incorrect.

Regard and Regards: Generally regard means to look, give attention or a particular point, while regards means good wishes. So if you say "In regards to our earlier conversation..." it's plainly bad English. You cannot have good wishes for conversation. It should be "Regarding our earlier conversation..."

I hope I am making sense here.

I read 3-4 pages of his first. Scarred for life; afraid to even read about the Indus Valley. NEVER going to touch any of his books in my life - not even to make fire in winter.

Arindam, I read 2 pages of Amish Tripathi's first book and gave it back to the friend from whom I had borrowed (I had enough sense to not to buy his book ). I would rather commit suicide. Even Preeti Shenoy made me cry when I tried reading her. Mind you, I love crying while reading but not that way.

Forced myself beyond the first paragraph (first sentence actually) just to give the guy a chance. Couldn't risk a migraine at the end.

i had downloaded all his 3 books to check what exactly he wrote...till today havent started...cant bring myself to read mythologies....get extreme reactions by those who read///either they are gaga over it or rubbish it as blah blah....

yup...its called poetic/creative liberties

Wish people accepted memos and CVs written out as poetry. Could've made that poetic license work to my advantage.

i add 'that' 'had' and 'as' very often too

The the syndrome, again I was corrected by the same client. I used to do that, but stopped it and started using more punctuation. 

While I was in the 9th standard, my professor once lauded a chapter's author who could write a proper, very long sentence without using punctuation. Needless to say, I was immediately impressed and started training myself! Of course that was a disaster, not that I was wrong, but many people could not understand it at first shot 

That would be true for most entries of the "jargon file" actually - eventually though. Even rofl and lol have started appearing in some dictionaries.

Till....Americans don't like the word "till"...they prefer "until" for that....Just remarking...Once I had received a comment from my American Editor when I used the word "till" that our newspaper is not into farming (she meant tilling) and so can't use the word "till"

It has.. some of the online dictionaries already say Revert can be used to expect a reply! but that is wrong!!!!

online dictionaries are valid right??

Rio...true that....but I think we can avoid these situations while writing. Pronounciations need work, specially proper nouns, not written English.

Yupp, Torch in India and US mean two different things 

@Ragini, thankfully I have worked for American companies only until now. And so only my American English proficiency is checked

it can get confusing...sometimes my posts end up having both UK & US english

(Just for laughs) Digressing here, but since we are discussing grammar, spellings and stuff, I once forgot the spelling of bicycle, and that too at a NCC Leadership Camp. In a room full of army men (different NCC Unit COs and cadets) I was explaining something on the blackboard and had to write bicycle. So after writing B and then Y as in By, I went blank. AND then I wrote BYCY, after this I went blank again, for I knew that this was not it. Very embarassing, for a Literature student. 

Err* embarrassing! Duh!

Ragini, I know what you mean. Once I was giving a session about the AP style guide to my writers, and somewhere I forgot the explanation for certain points in the presentation I called a break to cover that up

it means...unknowingly i learned.. american english...i will sue my teacher...

now i came to know why i didnt get brirish visa..bcoz i filled the visa form in american english..

Gauru, that was cheeky.. :(

Hahah Just noticed. Gauru, you are hilarious man 

gauru...thats exactly an important pointer..one has to keep in mind while applying visa...

Gauru, it happens. Always crosscheck twice before you fill a visa form. 

TS, if you mean me by "someone," you can point out my name in there. No issues.  Also, am I one of the "The respected/ respected English literature professionals"?

My view is that " word" changes meaning as we want them to portray in the sentence. Words are mere play chips at the hands of their masters. It's a vast play field and their masters play with them as they like. I see no issues.

Aaaah!! So IT WAS YOU!!! :p

I didn't give too much attention to those comments other than those from Prurnendu and Hemal. But since its from you, I am sure to a certain extent you of all people will agree that the meaning of the word doesn't change. How can the meaning of the word change just because we're from another country? Unfortunately, a lot of people do things blindly just because others do- same goes for words, habits, riding your scooter on the wrong side of the road, walking the dog on the sidewalk and making it poop over here and people walking on the road rather than on the sidewalk.....get the drift.No, I wasn't talking about you, but I do know some respected  english literature fellow over here who claims the stars and reality is that he doesn't have the stairs! :P. Its good when that person can do roleplay in his/her own little world, but he/she shouldn't put their crap on other people's yard. I am sure you'll agree to that! ;-).

Sorc, let's not involve in these things and concentrate on the topic of the thread.

Ok TS. I get you. However, I would like to clarify couple of things regarding that thread:

1. Word Changing Meaning: Yes, you are right that no matter how the word is used, it doesn't change the meaning in literal sense. But it does change its meaning in the context it's used, i.e., its usage. For example, the word "bear" can mean putting up with something or producing. If I say, I bear with it, it doesn't mean I am producing. Same way, every society has its own culture when it comes to the usage of certain words. "Revert" is one such word in the Indian society. We communicate with each other using the language rampant in the culture we are brought up in. That said, it doesn't mean that we shouldn't care about grammar and spellings because without those elements, the communication will stop making sense and will turn into gibberish. We definitely don't want that. What I meant in my reply to that other thread was, little bit of concession should be given to anyone when it comes to the usage of cultural language. In my belief, we don't need to nitpick that. That's it. I hope I am making sense here.
2. Pointing out errors: Every individual is different with different level of sensitivity. I firmly believe that as a responsible member of a society, we certainly need to be considerate about the feelings of the people around us. No matter what the situation is, truth is going to remain truth. Always. Without doubt. But there are ways of saying that truth. We could either be brutally honest or we could be diplomatic in putting across the truth. Even if we use the latter tactic, a wise person will always get what we mean to say. But if we use the former tactic, the other person will most likely get hurt and will form a biased opinion about us, which I think will impact future communications. Again, this is my view. Everybody has the right to agree/disagree to it.

On personal level, I simply hate bad English. But I restrain myself from directly pointing out errors because I hate treading on someone's toes. I am giving this explanation here because I think you took umbrage on my opinions mentioned in that other thread. I hope I have cleared up any misunderstandings that were created.

Rio, that would be more of a sentence formation, where both grammar and punctuation is correct but meaning changes. What we are also discussing is that the meaning of the word remains same, however the usage is wrong. 

It reminds me of a phenomenon in my mother-tongue. I speak Bhojpuri and this is exactly what happens in our language. Many a times, the speaker invents a new word while speaking which was never heard before and will never be heard again. Interestingly, the listener is able to understand well what was being conveyed. One of the reasons behind this phenomenon, as I understand, is that Bhojpuri is spoken with words as well as actions. You can't convey something without using your hands and/or facial expressions. Moreover, emphasis on sound is too much. I mean, sentences are never spoken in a steady tone. You will see most of the Biharis speaking as if they are singing . 

I think, expressions and tone work in this case and people are able to grasp what is being said even though they have heard the word for the very first time in their life.

Ha! That one is interesting.. True @Arti two Indians talking wrong grammar would still understand it, since both know it as the right grammar. 

@Ani that, my friend is interesting to learn - will ask you to give me an example some times 

Sure, let's meet when my brother is also with me  and see us talking. I'll explain to you where we are using some word for the first time

two Indians talking wrong grammar would still understand it, since both know it as the right grammar. 

so conclusion is... its alright to use 'revert' as 'reply back'...right?

I have a difference of opinion here. English is not our mother-tongue. It is an international language and is spoken and understood almost everywhere on the globe. It is better to use correct English lest we may be misunderstood. If one is sure of talking only to Indians, it's a different ballgame altogether.

so what about blogs where readers are mostly indians???

so conclusion is... its alright to use 'revert' as 'reply back'...right?

ND, no that is not the conclusion... what is wrong is wrong, but what I meant to say is that we do not make an effort to correct overselves because when talking to another Indian, it works just right. 

If you have any experience with tele-callers from India you will realize how bad it could get. When I was in US, I got a telemarketing call on my US cell number, and the guy was from a Gurgaon call center. His english was good, he was fluent but used all the wrong terms such as "revert", wrong usage of potential. 

And about Blog, well you are readers are Indians, but have you thought the reason why others do not read them? I am not saying it has to be the language, but many factors combine, including the content that could interest them. In any case, you would love to have an international audience, so why not write in the correct English from the begining itself?

i do have some international readers who drop in sometimes...esp on the international poetry prompts that i take part....so far they've not pointed out any errors,UK or US english ....thankfully....phew 

It really depends! Like FP said in the other thread, many people think that pointing out mistakes in open forums could hurt the writer, and hence avoid it. I would say rather say that and help the writer to improve. 

aww...now i dunno what to say..personally i dont think other than UK/US english mix up eg colour/color stuff...i have made any major errors...in any case i always welcome criticism....but then sometimes i dont care too//i'm like i'll write whatever i want...read if you want or dont..i'm least bothered 

Nandini 'reply back' s just as wrong as 'return back' and will remain so. :)

Haha you remind me of my Sanskrit teacher. He used to teach us Sah maane wah, wah maane ladka. Saa maane wah, wah maane ladki. This is to ensure that we use Sah and Saa at approppriate places 

:D :D 

Yeah Sweety, that is already part of the topic I listed above. 

all of us have british hangover perhaps...we were ruled by british at one point, so its in our subconcious mind to speak/write as perfect as our masters.......

Exactly. @Nandini : We write and speak (those who know the craft) better English than the Englishmen and US. Americans (the general masses) have a poor sense of grammar and spellings.Narasimha : Us Indians are obsessed about English. Look at all these European countries. My brother was in Netherlands for quite a while. And not many speak or understand Enlish there. Same in France, Denmark and Spain. The stress there is more on the local language. They will be bilingual - but more often than not - other than their native language, they will know languages like german, spanish, french. 

True Ragini, we oughta have knowledge. That's all. Pronounciation etc. one adapts as per sorroundings and necessity. Grammar, if we wanna be published, we will get it professionally edited before it goes on print.

Narasimha, in a similar fashion we do not correct others for speaking incorrect Hindi, specially if he/she is a non-Hindi speaking person

Ragini, most of these countries take a pride in their mother-tongue and hence, they hardly care. We are one of those rare races which keeps it's mother-tongue at the backseat, this is where obsession comes from.

maybe cos these countries have one mother tongue each, while we have different mother tongues in diff states

personally i dont understand indian set of purists who looks down upon those who write ordinary english

ND, I too don't like people who harp for using complex language. However, when it comes to grammar and punctuations, it's another story. The simple reason being incorrect grammar expresses incorrect meaning, especially in written English when the reader has no way of noticing the writer's expressions. As in Rio's example, an incorrect coma changed the meaning of the sentence.

So what's the use of the language when you fail to communicate the idea you want to?

grammar/punctuations are fine...i was talking abt those indian purists who looks down on others ( who prefer simplicity.crispness ) as untouchables ..who donot use complicated phrases/synonyms etc

Ah, this is what I call a truly diverse thought pool! I love this about IndiBlogger, where such vibrant thoughts come together. 

One thing that I strongly believe is that be it any language, any country, the usage of correct terms in conversations is important, lest we miss the meaning you wished to convey.

Even in our day to day conversation, we face such instances many a times. We all have had "Oh I thought you meant this!" moments, but how many of us do take a look back at the instance, why did we not get it right at the first time? Chances are, that it is either the english that other person used, tone or simply difference of opinion. The whole point of language is to communicate the thought, but due to incorrect usage, this somewhere gets lost. 

As Narasimha said, Chinese speak the most horrible English even I have heard. But the reason that did not discourage Americas or Europeans is because they know no one else could do manufacturing as cheap as Chinese can. So even though they may be pissed with the language Chinese use, but cannot ignore the value they generate. Same holds true for Indians as well.

@Ragini I completely second your thought. The problem is how our society has shaped up. A local political leader who promotes the mother tounge and creates an artificial protection around it and a political empire itself, sends his sons and daughters to English school. When I grew up, learning in an English school meant you are elite - our kids get this wrong impression from childhood itself, so who are to be blamed?

At our jobs, one of the key requirement in the Job Description is "Has excellent English written and spoken communication skills". If you do not know English, you hardly can get a job in MNC which pays you the best salary. Yet, in my corporate career I have seen people who, though are bad (if not worse) in English, but are brilliant executors of the role they are assigned. 

But as Nandini said, Indian English Purists look down up on those who do not have proper english usage skills and it is true. It has to stop, but the very notion that our society has created for ourselves, we are now used to be the slaves we were 200 years ago and still think English as the epitome of language. tma

Another problem we face is the diverse Language base India is proud off. An Indian in south is looked down up on from North, and both cannot understand their language. Mahatma Gandhi wanted to change that, hence he choose Hindi as the National language which will be taught in every school, so that one from north can interact with one from south or east or west or anywhere in India. This was partially succesful, and with objections from certain language spoken states too derailed its widespread implementation. Had that been successful, we may have seen more Hindi speaking language forums and websites. 

Alas, we were too proud of our own mother tounge that we were left with no other option than to adopt English as the medium for communication.

Hemal,

You have digressed from the topic a bit in the last two paragraphs, so allow me to present my views here.

India is a country which boasts of more than 15 recognized languages, and has even created states based on linguistic basis. Hence, India cannot afford to take a patronizing stance on one of its languages. Probably, the elders saw the logic in this argument and backed away from attributing the status of national language to Hindi.

Also, pride in our mother tongue has got nothing to do with adopting English as the mode of communication. Since we are working for people who know/speak/write in English only, we preferred English. For example, if a South Indian gets recruited in U.P in a public sector job, he will have to learn Hindi or any local language that is effective over there. 

@Narasimha, choice of Hindi was more or less because of it would have been easier to implement. Most of the North speaks similar language and hence adaptation would be easier, leaving south to learn it a bit hardway. So it was the scale, which tilted the weight in Hindi's favor. Well, how we see it now is different than what our elders saw then. So, no point in debating it. 

I think you also agreed one of my points to what I said, albeit differently. 

For example, if a South Indian gets recruited in U.P in a public sector job, he will have to learn Hindi or any local language that is effective over there

The problem is you cannot learn a language overnight. And if everyone in India knew one common language (our elders felt it could be Hindi) along with their regional language, they will have one common medium to speak to each other, till this person learns the local language. 

That gap, nowadays is filled by using English since this is a language that many now know. It may not be now, but the trend will only increase. 

Interesting article!

ah! that line speaks truth - and if and only if people respected that...

Becuase incorrect grammar conveys incorrect meaning, i.e. different than what you actually meant to express.

mistakes in Grammar and Punctiuation can alter the meaning. The whole purpose of language is to convey the message, and one has to go by the rules to get it right. I would not say that we should always emphasis on grammar in our language, but we should use it well to convey our message correctly, as we intented it to be.