Are we too soft on corruption?

We are too soft on everything right from corruption to foreign affairs 

Corruption is a vicious circle of our society! Everybody loves to talk about it but nobody wants to do anything about it.

There is a old saying "charity starts at home". If every individual pledge that he/she will not indulge in corrupt practice and will do his best to tackle it then I believe we have eradicate corruption from INDIA 

Yes we are, and that so, because we ourselves are corrupt. And unfortunately, no law is there to stop corrupt citizens. We frame laws for corrupt officials, bureaucrats, and such, but, there is no law for corrupt people.

Our basic human society is founded on corruption. Here we have it dirty and in the open while in the US they use fancy names like lobbies, fund raising etc.

The basic corruption is property rights. Every human and animal should be born with equal rights to all the resources on this earth. But that is not the case. Some are born paupers while some are born with enough to live luxuriously and waste. It might be argued that they are enjoying the fruits of their ancestors' hardwork. Even if it is accepted, I am sure in at least half cases, it would be their ancestors' corruption and exploitation than hardwork. Even the Western countries living luxuriously today are living off the ill begoten wealth of colonial conquests.

Leaving historic corruption of nations against other nations and looking at local level, Norway was one of the countries where I observed a more or less fair society. Most people earn more or less the same amount and have similar standard of living, government takes care of all basic needs and people can't leave their property to their children. Government takes even the house after the person's demise. Only in such circumstances, corruption can truly be eleminated. Otherwise in most cases all this talk of eleminating corruption and all is mere hypocrisy. 

India can never become corruption free. If somehow it does, living in India would become extremely difficult

I don't agree that similar financial conditions can eliminate corruption. Infact I am against it. If everyone earns on a same level, the urge to earn more ( work hard) dies. The ones who work hard and deserve a better living will lose the zeal and the ones who don't would become even more lazy. After all what's the point.

There will be no advancements, no inventions, no development.
Living in a standstill environment is more difficult than living in a corrupted one.

I agree with Sweety. A society cannot progress if it is not going to reward productivity, efficiency and meritocracy.

People should realize that a country has to be rich first (rich in money and resources or both, relative to their population) before becoming a welfare state like Nordic countries (famous for their 'cradle to grave' govt support) or Saudi Arabia (no taxes). You can only offer same (good)  benefits to each citizen of your society only if you have money to afford it.

Nordic countries also created an enabling environment for its business very early on. They are very liberal when it comes to business and govt does not interfere much, which reduces the chances of corruption. It is not surprising that countries where govt interference in business is less have higher ratings on transparency indices.

Kapil I dont think India is a poor country.  We we all voluntarily give up the gold we have horded for generations, I think we did be at par with the US of A. 

We have become mentally incapable to speak about the "wrongs" in society. Corruption is ruining our country. There is corruption in creative and intellectual field which is not even considered corruption.For example -

1. Record labels keep the rights of the songs with themselves, which actually belong to the writer/lyricist and the music composer/singer.

2. Movies are made taking inspiration from books and people and they are not even given a penny while the producers make millions out of it. Recent example - GULAAB GANG.

@ Vijay - I did not mean we are a poor country, but we are also not rich enough to support welfare schemes like Nordic or Gulf countries.

@ Gaurab - Very true. We all are in this together (think about songs.pk and torrents)

@kapil - That's true but I feel India has uneven distribution of money in society. We are not like US and UK that people can buy so many songs and movies. The corporates/music labels will earn millions even if they provide music for low costs. 

Take for example, moserbear has reduced video cd piracy a lot, people prefer buying the cheap cd's instead of the fake ones.

My simple point is if your grandfather has stolen from my grandfather and today you are rich and I am poor, you can't come and lecture to me about honesty and stuff. If I have an opportunity to loot you, I will and I consider it absolutely fair.

I will only listen to you if you share your wealth with me, bring us to even footing and then talk of all this.

We talk of India not having wealth but do not even talk of taxing inheritance at a high rate far from seizing inherited wealth. In Norway, government takes away your home after your death. Nobody builds wealth for seven useless lazy generations like here.

@TF, your simple point, is the root of all the problems. You just justified the looting of your grandfather. So if someone's grandfather was a looter, he probably thought like you and then this goes on and on..

Nobody s going to share his/her wealth with you; you have to earn it. Your well being is not somebody else's responsibility. Grow up.

Why should govt seize inherit wealth. Do you mean to say that once if some industrialist dies (eg Dhirubai Ambani, Reliance), Anil and Mukesh should not inherit it, rather incumbent govt (congress, bjp etc.) should seize the wealth and then give it to politicians (Deora, Moily, A Raja and clan) to run it. Even when you have examples of how businesses have been run to the ground by our current govt.

Do you also mean to say my kids should not get my house if I die suddenly or due to old age. I mean individual will, freedom, liberties and choices does not mean anything (on the excuse of public welfare).

Capitalism is not the solution to all problems. Capitalism is not real freedom in unequal world. In a world with gross unequlaity, complete free market does not necessarily promote meritrocracy or productivity. It rather favors the ones who already have capital over the ones who do not.

Theoretically, it is a good concept if we start with a level playing field for all. But that is not practically possible unless we have some bloody communist revolution or something. So in some ways China is going that way - levelling the field through communism and then establishing capitalism when playing field is level. Theoretically ideal situation. But I have read about corruption prevalent in China as well - do not know how true it is or what could be the reason.

Business should be left with businesspersons. Government should focus on governance and regulations. Instead of govt running steel industries, airlines, oil companies etc. it should let businesses operate them. Govt on the other hand should focus on ensuring fair play, strong penalty system for people who abuse the system and strict regulations.

In short, you cannot expect fair play when bowling/batting team and the umpire are from same team.

Capitalism is not the best solution, but it is a better option over socialism etc.

There are two types of courruption in India

1. Forced corruption : Where the giver is forced to comply > What we pay to escape challan at traffic signal

2. Voluntary corruption :  Where both giver and taker are equally happy > Government contracts

It is the second one that is cancerous to India

Three main types of corruption -

1.Large-scale corruption - Corruption of lakhs of crores which takes place between the government and corporates and between large industries. Here both parties are happy and gain something hence nobody complains.

2. Everyday corruption - Corruption in public offices and corruption faced by common man. From passport to getting your files passed everywhere it is prevalent. Here's complaints are filed.

3. Third and very important type of corruption in creative and intellectual field. Ex-

(a.) Record labels keep the rights of the songs with themselves, which actually belong to the writer/lyricist and the music composer/singer.

 (b.)Movies are made taking inspiration from books and people and they are not even given a penny while the producers make millions out of it. Recent example - GULAAB GANG.

People should realise that we all are corrupt in one way or the other. Agreed that some of the corruption exist because there are too many arcane rules to follow. But we are corrupt still.

If we download pirated movies, songs, softwares over the internet, we are being corrupt.

If we bribe a cop to avoid getting a challan over not wearing a seat belt or a helmet, it is we who are corrupt.

If we falsify our rent figures to claim max HRA benefit and to min taxes, we are being corrupt.

If we sell our vote for free saree, fan, TV, water, electricity, it is we who are being voluntarily corrupt. Understand this, a corrupt politician cannot get elected from a constituency with honest voters and vice versa. A minister is nothing but a representative of his/her constituency.

It is this kind of voluntary corruption, we can all check easily and control.

You are right, Rio. All these issues are interlinked and you can't solve just the corruption issue in isolation. What is needed is a holitic solution. Otherwise it will become a case of driving the devil out of the front door only to see him enter through the window.