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Shantinath Chaudhary
from Hyderabad |

Do you thing, the Ranking methodology in IndiVive is right???? Why should it be based on a blogger's IndiRank?? Shouldn't it be solely based on the no. of votes a post gets?? Isn't it kind of discrmination with newer bloggers?? Shouldn't the deserving post be ranked better??

In the present methodology, the ranking of the post submitted in Indivine, depends on IndiRank of the blogger. Like, if I have an IndiRank of 30, then 6 people voting for me means I get 6*1.3= 8(approximated) Hearts.

So is this right thing???

Replies 1 to 20 of 33

Sanjay Vedula
from Hyderabad |

hey dude! The voting system is not like that. If your Indirank is 30 then, whenever you cast a vote to some post then the vote is worth 1.30 points. (1+ 0.30 [Indirank]). 

It is a cool weighted ranking system. I personally like it. When some one casts a vote for your post, it means that he gives the post 1+ (blogger's indirank/100) points to it. It changes from blogger to blogger. 

Hope this helps. 

Cheers! Laughing

Shantinath Chaudhary
from Hyderabad |

I don't think so. That way one of my IndiVine entry should be getting 10 points but it is getting only 8. Look here- http://www.indiblogger.in/indipost.php?post=33057

and what happens in case the voting person has got 2 blogs with differnt IndiRanks???

The FAQ reads - ".........where a vote for a higher ranking blog gets more weightage. Let's take for example the blog gujiligalaba.blogspot.com having an IndiRank of 55. Every vote for posts from this blog will have a value of (1 + .55 = 1.55). "

Does it matches with what you are saying????????

Sanjay Vedula
from Hyderabad |

Surprised I never noticed it! Thanks! This is worth talking about then! I was completely in a different impression. 

Any comments Renie??

Shantinath Chaudhary
from Hyderabad |

Renie must be busy. Isn't some IndiPolice squad member roaming around here??? Would you mind justifying it, or you may tag dear Renie to this post.

My point is- Why better IndiRanked bloggers should be given undue preference in the Ranking Methodology of IndiVine posts even when their posts might be much worse than a less IndiRanked blogger?????

Mag[m]
from Delhi |

call for indipolice m here dood

Naveen
from Bengaluru |

Even i felt what this guy said is right. i had a 70+ rank 2-3 months ago n my indivine posts used to have nice points by votes. Now my latest post had 8 votes coming in..all with decent ranks n my indivine points 4 that post is just 12? consider..it would have been a minimum 15-16 in the old days when i had 71. So .. this is a bit unfair i too guess! :)

Shantinath Chaudhary
from Hyderabad |

@Mag: Heyyy IndiPolice...... I felt soooo glad and relieved to see you here :) You made this come true- "IndiPolice- With you, for you, always, everywhere...." :) :)

Ohhkk so tell me, how can this be fair???

In my opinion, this methodology is grossly unfair and discriminatory. This is akin to implementing Quota system and that too for intelligent people. This is similar to making rich people even more richer. How can this be fair??? I just can't see any reason.

In my personal opinon, only talent should be the criteria of judging a person. In similar way, only the quality of the blog-post should be the criteria for the ranking in IndiVine posts.

But, in the present system of ranking for IndiVine posts, quantity overpowers quality. I mean, if a person writes more often (howsoever bad), then he is bound to be better IndiRanked, and hence he is going to get undue preference in the Voting system of the IndiVine posts.

This should not be there. Only the quantity of blog should matter. So all the bloggers should have equal point-weightage for each votes.

Renie.... Renie... Renieeeeee........... are you listening????????????????

Nalini Hebbar
from Nellore |

I post every other day on my two blogs...that's 15 blog posts per blog per month...my rank never changed...it was the same even when I posted 30 per blog per month !

During the 30posts period I got lesser votes but now it's much better...but my rank never changed!

I went on a 12 day holiday in June 2010, around the time Indiranks came out, and WHAM! my ranks came down from 79 to 73 and 74 to 67...and all I missed were 6 posts/blog!

It is NOT votes NOT posts NOT comments that get you ranks...coz blogs with as few as 4-8 posts/month have great ranks and blogs with 100s of comments have low ranks. It is not the quality of the post either...I am sure of that!

Then what is it?

Shantinath Chaudhary
from Hyderabad |

Can some IndiPolice give their expert opinion on this?????

Unknown
from Hyderabad, India |

dude... first of all why running behind these votes.. didnt u have enough race in life..

  • marks, ranks in school
  • entrance exam ranks
  • college grading
  • appraisals in office..

now why cry over the votes Tongue out

come out of the rat race...enjoy the world..Cool

Shantinath Chaudhary
from Hyderabad |

I am not running in rat race, I am just trying to point out some serious discriminatory rules and regulations which in my opinion shouldn't be there on these Forums where Intellectuals express their views. When such kind of discrimination would exist among such intellectuals then I think this QUOTA system will remain forever in INDIA (though that might actually come true Tongue out)

HJ
from Bangalore |

this is a good one.

Neha Gupta
from Noida |

@ yeah I agree with 'Unknown'......enough of rat race....but then who doesn't feel good getting votes:)

Ranjith
from hyderabad |

The perfect reply. We need to enjoy the things we have rather than regretting in that way. By the way, is that the reason your name is unknown- to keep yourself away from the rat's race?

Addy
from Mumbai |

@Shantinath Since you called for the IndiPolice.....

Well, Shanti dude, you got it all wrong! The vote you get does not depend on your indirank! the vote you give depends on your indirank.

When you give a vote on indivine (Assuming your indirank is 55) the vote that is submitted to the selected blog (by you) is 1.55.

On the other hand, someone with indirank 85 votes for your indivine post, then you get the vote as 1.85.

I hope its clear now!

IndiPolice at your service! :)

Sujith
from Kerala |

OMG, then my voting value is 1.9 !!!....Surprised It's a new info. 

Addy
from Mumbai |

Yes it is! You are the most valuable voter on indivine!

Shantinath Chaudhary
from Hyderabad |

Sorry, but this doesn't clear it now, someone above said the same think also, but I think this is not so, I am not getting points in accordance with this.

Besides, this is what is given about IndiVine voting in FAQ-

"The IndiVine voting system is integrated with IndiRank, where a vote for a higher ranking blog gets more weightage. Let's take for example the blog gujiligalaba.blogspot.com having an IndiRank of 55. Every vote for posts from this blog will have a value of (1 + .55 = 1.55). "

Read these lines and tell me if this actually matches with what you are saying...... :)

Addy
from Mumbai |

Every vote for posts from this blog

Read the fine lines dude! vote for posts from his blog! FROM not TO! :-)

Sowmya
from Chennai, Manama |

Hey Addy - As far as the english part goes..

the "for" applies to the posts and not to the votes..

"for posts from the Blog A", every vote given will count 1 + (Blog A's Indirank*0.01) 

http://www.buzzzstop.com/

Shantinath Chaudhary
from Hyderabad |

@Sowmya: Yeah, that's why I told him we better consult a Language expert than fighting it out on these trivial Grammatical things. Hope we get one Language expert's opinion on this soon Tongue out

Sujith
from Kerala |

Yes now it is proved. I just voted for an indivine post. Before voting , the score was 40 and after voting increased to  42. Smile

Shantinath Chaudhary
from Hyderabad |

@Sujith: No, its not proved yet, Have a look at the blogger's IndiVine rank too, his rank must be greater than 50 SmileSmile

Sujith
from Kerala |

@Shantinath,

Yes, A vote from me  for  bloggers with indirank N/A to 69 added only 1 point and for others   2 points.  

Shantinath Chaudhary
from Hyderabad |

@Sujith: Ohhh don't puzzle me yaar, just tell me who do you agree with???? Me or Addy??? 

Sujith
from Kerala |

Now I can't join with Addy.

The vote you get does not depend on your indirank!

this is wrong

 Points are based your rank and the voter's rank. Just verified.

Shantinath Chaudhary
from Hyderabad |

@Sujith: Does it depend on Voter's rank too???? But FAQ doesn't say so!!!!

tweedlethumb
from Calcutta |

Excuse me ! I have no rank or anything. I am in this place for about a week or so.

After reading this post, I voted for two people (just to verify) - and in both the cases the points went up by +2..so, I think the logic (higher ranked people carry more voting power) is flawed.. :/

Shantinath Chaudhary
from Hyderabad |

@Addy: I still donot agree with you. May be we will have to consult an English Language expert for this Tongue out Tongue out

Besides, according to this rule, my post should have got 10 points, but it is getting only 8 points (and 8 matches with what I think is the rule right now). You may have a look here-

http://www.indiblogger.in/indipost.php?post=33057

Check it out and see why this is not according to the rule you are saying, exists right now.

Sowmya
from Chennai, Manama |

I also agree with Shantinath - that the votes you get depend on the rank of your blog. I have checked many times for many posts and it does match this algo..

Is it unfair? - Well, if you are not ranked, every vote you get counts for atleast 1 and after you are ranked it counts a little more depending on your blog rank. By definition, higher ranked blogs do get more votes than the lower ranked blogs although the same number of people have voted for these. Like Shantinath said, this makes the rich (higher ranked blogs) - richer, but then gives an incentive for the lower ranked blogs to improve their rank.

DO you have to compete and improve your rank? - I agree with Unknown - this is a place to generally have fun. Yes, there is a system that facilitates you to see how you compare with other bloggers - when you have time and energy you are free to compete - but nothing stops you from just posting for fun and forgetting the ranking and the ranting;)

http://www.buzzzstop.com/

Shantinath Chaudhary
from Hyderabad |

I would have preferred it the other way round-Give the better IndiRanked bloggers' votes more value, I mean each single vote by them should depnd on their IndiRank, so better IndiRanked bloggers will have have a greater say in the Ranking of posts in IndiVine. This too will be kind of an incentive for the lower ranked bloggers to improve their rank and thus have greater say in decision making (about posts on IndiVine).

This seems more logical too.

Hope Renie takes notice of this.

Shantinath Chaudhary
from Hyderabad |

and I wonder how come such an experienced, old player of indoblogger not know the rules of IndiVine Ranking !!!!!!!!!!

Renie Ravin
from Chennai |

Sorry folks, I just came upon this thread...funny how grammar is so important! Smile Shantinath and everyone, thanks for bringing this to our notice - we only have the mindspace for so much, being a small team. We tend to overlook this stuff far more often than we would like to. This forum is where collective intelligence comes into play! Smile Much appreciated. Topic made sticky. Addy, thanks for having so much faith in us, you trust that we'll do what's right... but in this case your faith was a bit misplaced! Embarassed

It's true, it's based on the blog's IndiRank, and the IndiRank of the voter doesn't make a difference.

Shantinath - I see where you're coming from, and I find myself completely agreeing with you. A little background though, to explain why it was built this way. When IndiVine v2 was created 1 year ago (was it really that long?!), before it had a voting system, it was borne from this thread here. This issue you just brought up actually crossed our minds before, see underlined:

My concern on that thread (copy pasted) :

My only concern is - how do we keep this feature from becoming another Digg or IndianPad? Is there anything we can think of which would differentiate it? The problem with Digg is that you have teams working together to digg each other's posts, etc. Sometime, we may have posts coming to the top which don't deserve to be. Off the top of my head - should we integrate all the above ideas with IndiRank? We can have a ratio to rate posts - user rating + IndiRank. (Maybe 75:20)

Or will integration with IndiRank discourage new bloggers who have a low IndiRank?

And later...

Ok, need to bounce an idea here - about integration with IndiRank - how about we increase the value of a vote based on IndiRank? So if a post gets one vote, and that blog's IR is 45, then the vote is increased by 1.4. (Displayed values will be rounded off)

So you'll see now why it was built in this manner. We actually did have gaming when the new IndiVine was launched, where 1 blogger with 5 blogs will create a separate profile for each blog, open each profile in 5 browsers and vote for the same post. Initially, we would have had a lot of these posts coming to the top of IndiVine if it wasn't for the integration of IndiRank - thankfully, top ranked bloggers don't need to resort to those tactics!

However, in the past few months, we've discreetly taken care of this problem. Innocent So I guess it doesn't apply anymore - and it makes our original fears/logic less relevant.

Moving on, how do we address this? If we attach the value of a vote to the IndiRank of a voter, then what about a voter who has multiple blogs? Do we take an average? Will it increase the number of spam requests targeted at higher ranked bloggers with "please vote for my post" requests?

Shantinath Chaudhary
from Hyderabad |

Heyyy Renie, I am extremely Sorry, but I couldn't understand the things fully. Here it is. You said-

"We actually did have gaming when the new IndiVine was launched, where 1 blogger with 5 blogs will create a separate profile for each blog, open each profile in 5 browsers and vote for the same post. Initially, we would have had a lot of these posts coming to the top of IndiVine if it wasn't for the integration of IndiRank"

Now, first I suppose, that what you mean by integration of IndiRank   is that relating the IndiRank to the weightage given to the each single vote to the IndiVine posts. Now, I couldn't understand how by doing this you are able to counter those game players???? I think if I create 5 blogs and get them all registered with different email IDs and Names, then I will still be able to vote for my post from 4 of my own blogs. So how is that stopping??? How did that integration that is presently in place, is able to take care of this misuse???? I really couldn't understand this. I think that misuse would still be at large. What you seems to imply by those lines is that, misuse has been brought down due to that integration ("we would have had a lot of these posts coming to the top of IndiVine if it wasn't for the integration of IndiRank" ).

So for the time being, let me assume that the "game thing" haven't been taken care of yet.

So you think that if you average all the Rankings of a person having multiple blogs and then integrate this with his voting power, then higher ranked bloggers will be spammed with "please vote for my post" requests. Yeah, that may be possible, but.. but.... but in this case, at least you are not at fault. I mean you have framed a fare rule, its far better than the present one in which the better Ranked blogger gets unfair advantage. At least you are being fare in rules formation. Now its the onus of the high ranked blooger whether or not he entertains such requests or how he faces/regulates/stops these kind of spammy requests. At least you have formed a fare rule. Now bloggers should take care of those spams.

And if, you think that you will be actually troubling high ranked bloggers(due to spam requests) with this rule, then why not leave it neutral??? Keep it similar to 'DIG' system. Why are you unnecessarily trying to make indiblogger different from DIG and in the process framing an unfair rule??? I think till the time you don't find any fare ranking methodolgy, then you should keep it similar to 'DIG'. But the present methodology/voting weightage, as applied to IndiVine posts, are discriminatory to say the least. It must be changed, either to a neutral one or to the reverse one(giving higher ranked blogger high voting power).

P.S.- I read that thread (that you have linked with 'here' in ur reply above), I saw that in that thread you had not have much discussion over this integration thing. So I think you need to take more opinions regarding that.

Enough for now. Thanks Smile

Renie Ravin
from Chennai |

Sorry buddy, guess I wasn't too clear - about the gaming, we countered it using a different method - no relation to IndiRank. IndiRank never prevented it, but it did reduce the effect that gaming had on the system.

Time for a poll, I guess! People, should we

  1. allow the IndiRank of the voter to influence the vote's value? (or)
  2. should we remove IndiRank integration altogether?

Personally I prefer option one. Smile

Deepak
from India |

I prefer #2.

Wink

Shantinath Chaudhary
from Hyderabad |

Option 2 for sure. Remove it altogether.

I think you should invite Vipul for his opinion on this, he was quite instrumental in these rules fomnration at that time, so he should have some say again.

Addy
from Mumbai |

Can I have option #3? The thing I always thought existed!

The values of votes given by a blogger = 1 + .indirank e.g.  1.65, 1.73 etc.

If its not that, then the old one is better still, option #1

Ranjith
from hyderabad |

How would this be? Suppose a blogger with an indirank of 65(average of all his blogs) votes for a blog of indirank 60, the net vote that is to be given will be 1+(65+60)/200=??

Addy
from Mumbai |

@All sorry guys for misinterpreting it! Tongue out But I always thought what I said was right! Damn thats a shocker!Surprised

Another reason for the Grammar ****'s to hang me now! Innocent I am trying to improve! Where is my countess when I need her the most? Frown

Deepak
from India |

it just happens sometimes...

so dunno worry Mr. Showstopper!!! Smile

Addy
from Mumbai |

"Showstopper"???????

Deepak
from India |

u as showstopper... dont be get confused by this

Addy
from Mumbai |

What have I done to deserve that man?

Deepak
from India |

u have to done something for that position??? Wink

u deserve dude... Laughing

well then do... i will never mind for that!!!

Vipul Grover
from Chandigarh |

Thanks to Renie for directing me to this discussion. First of all, let me introduce myself as off late I am not seen much on Indiblogger forums. I am the source of all this discussion as Indivine 2.0 was my idea. Indiblogger team put in a lot of effort to make it as fair as possible.

Having reigned myself on the top of Indivine for record time, I dont think I have the right to defend it as I can't claim to share similar grievances.

However remember, Indirank doesn't reflect new or old blogger. Its true a new blogger takes time to move up. But beyond 2-3 months, everyone is at par. I am an old blogger with Indirank in just 60's (Once it was in 80's and even dropped to 50's). Indirank reflects how regular you are (integrating it with Google and Alexa Rank). So again, no debate about new or old bloggers.

The only problem I feel is about those bloggers who keep promoting posts non-stop. In return others feel obliged to promnote there posts and some of these are presently in top-10 List of popular posts. I believe, is a change is required, it should be limiting the number of promotes and fixing some time gap between a bunch of promotes in a day.

Sowmya
from Chennai, Manama |

Vipul - welcome to the discussion and thanks for giving the new people in indiblogger such as myself some background about you.

You make a very valid point and something that I have also felt strongly about.

The time gap between blogs may not be feasible since some of us don't access Indiblogger from work and will have to catch up either early morning or in the evenings/weekends.

However, the number is very workable and  I suggest that we can have a quota of  15 votes per blog per day. Why 15? I think that is the limit on Indimails and so just went with that. If we want to be more intelligent / dynamic with this, it can be made a %age of the number of posts outstanding within the 48 hour time band. The downside - Already, for some reason, the number of votes have drastically reduced - perhaps because we now have a requirement to read the post - While I cant see why this needs to be a deterrent, I  can certainly say the vote quality has improved to offset the drop in quantity.

If people need to be motivated / encouraged by the number of votes, one can always make each vote count for 2 since now it is a better quality vote.. 

http://www.buzzzstop.com/

Ranjith
from hyderabad |

@ Vipul Alexa rank might not be of much use to those bloggers whose readers base is mall since Alexa tracks only those visits from the browsers where the Alexa toolbar is installed.

@ Soumya Regarding teh necessity to raed the post before voting. It is not so. Turn on pop up blocker. Click the read post button. The post does not open up but still you can vote on it. may be the next version on Indiblogger needs to tackle this issue.

Aditya Tibrewala
from Mumbai |

why not have a time and vote ratio on every post submitted on indivine? What i mean is that all posts which have a high amount of votes but in the shortest time duration should figure on top of indivine. That way, as time passes the vine keeps getting refreshed with new posts and posts dont sit on the top of indivine for days altogether like they do now. I think digg and redditt follow the same rule.

Shantinath Chaudhary
from Hyderabad |

Looks like not many persons are interested in this!!!! In that case, the final decision should be made entirely by the admin but respecting  some basic logics Smile

abhishek khanna
from Delhi |

in my opinion, there should be a weight for the quality of blogs (ie indirank) to keep the spammers and gamers out.

I know this will hurt the new bloggers for first 2-3 months, but then removing the weight on the indirank will obviously bring down the quality. Juse as an example, see the state of rambhai these days...

NANDITA PRAKASH
from NEW DELHI |

help help help

i m very new on indiblogger

a week old

i hav no rank

what points do i get?

: (

how do i get a rank?

they said it would be re-evaluated on 30sep

but they did not

i m sooooo sad

i dnt mind having the last rank but at least i shud hav one  :P

Unknown
from Hyderabad, India |

haha... u r still takin ur baby steps here.. by the way am just 2 months old here :P..u will get one soon.. by Oct 5th wait.. patience kid :D

Mad Hatter
from Hyderabad |

hey nandita! I checked out your blog- I couldn't comment on a particular post because of some difficulties. Anyways, I found you here, so I thought I'd contact you this way- I love your poems! =) One particular post "Make Sure Your Death Isn’t The Same" inspired me to write a new one and its on its way. I'd be sure to tell you when it comes up.

Cheers!

-Mad Hatter

Nandhini Chandrasekaran
from Chennai |

What a situational topic for me! I am brand new in indiblogger. And my blog hasn't been ranked yet. Though by number of votes, my post stands equal to a No.15, with the indirank matematics it is pushed to No. 40 Cry I sincerely feel this mathematics should be relaxed atleast for the contest posts.

Nandhini Chandrasekaran
from Chennai |

I should have written //by number of promoters// instead of //by number of votes//Tongue out

Nalini Hebbar
from Nellore |

My suggestions:

  • How about the contest posts being separated from the mainstream posts? For those of us who are not very keen about entering a contest, a whole page of contest posts is kind of boring. And the requests on indimail are on the increase too!
  • How about linking 'comment'/'vote on blog' with votes on Indiblogger instead of just viewing post?  I mean, unless you comment or vote on a blog, you can't vote on Indiblogger.

Joining Indiblogger has to somehow improve the value of my blog.

What good is a rank if it doesn't improve the status of my blog in cyberspace?

Pawan Maruvada
from Visakhapatnam |

I agree with the first point, the contest post should be separated! 

And as for the second point, a person who reads a post does not necessarily comment on it, and moreover we might end up getting spam comments :D