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When you promote everybody you promote nobody

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Sairam Rajamani
from Bangalore |

Oh Wait! You promote yourself because you hope some of those who you promoted will promote you back.

I am talking about the "promoting a post" submitted for the contests like Dove, HP and Dell.

I was not a member here during Dove time. But for the other two, I submitted my posts. One of them is doing OK and the other is doing better. But what apalls me is that some people vote for all the posts of all the contestants in an effort to get some promoting votes back. It has gone to such a stage where if somebody votes for me I don't know whether they really liked my post or are they expecting me to vote back on their post.

I understand I am raking up a sensitive issue and I might get a lot of flame or absolute silence. But I thought I should speak up against I promote you, You promote me scheme. It is the google equivalent of link exchange which google penalizes. It's high time Indiblogger does something on similar lines.

Replies 1 to 20 of 23

Monica
from New Delhi |

I support you :D Dont't worry about the bricks, we would reply back with stones ;)

Monica
from New Delhi |

This promotion thing helps nobody at all.When you get back 1 after promoting 1, are not the levels already equaled.

Aashish Sood
from Delhi |

Thats why winning is now independent of promotes on indi! A partial judging is done!

Kimi Shrivastava
from Jhinkpani |

Actually I do agree and I don't too. I agree that people voting on every post without even reading whats written in it, just to get votes back is stupid...But, one can't stop anyone to vote for as all the entries. If the person really likes the post and votes for it, then what is wrong in it? Or you want to say that some entries you found dumb from your point of view got votes, then it is the problem with perception.  

I love to read...and I usually read all the top posts on first few pages..When HP contest started, there were very few posts and as I had no better thing to do with my time on weekend, I read them all and I guess promoted almost 90% of them, because I actually loved them a lot. We have some excellent bloggers here and so far I've only come across the best of the lot in both Dove and HP contest. 

But, does that get me same votes back? No..people aren't foolish to do the same "I'll follow you, you follow me back" trend here. I myself entertain those who read my post, really like it and then promote it and I get their feedback in the comments on my post, so that makes some sense to me.

However, the voting criteria isn't taken into consideration here anymore, so Indiblogger or anyone shouldn't worry much on it. 

The Sorcerer
from Mumbai |

aaah! Voting multiple people with an intention/expectation to vote is retarded, that goes without saying. But there's nothing wrong in liking multiple topics in a contest of the same theme, provided you genuinely liked it.

Initially when I joined I got 3-5-8. Then it reduced to 2. All of a sudden it bounced back to 6 but difference it is genuinely liked and its read because according to the average time spent on the post has increased dramatically. I am most of the people don't have that intention. If they did, I would have seen way different numbers.

Ranjith
from hyderabad |

The fault lies in the IndiVine system and not in the ones who resort to these things. Politicians resort to illegal activities only because the constitution allows it and so is the case with IndiVine. I also do not accept that the posts that are in the top position are the best posts on IndiVine. People tend to click links on IndiVine and vote only if they know that person.... or the title needs to be tooooo attrcative. It is not the people who need to change but the concept of indiVine. Can't IndiBlogger emply assign the task of rating each post on a scale of 0 to 100 and re order posts in that order?

Anukriti Sharma
from Hartford |

The criteria for judging a post should be the number of comments on the blog, its relevance and how it is written, rather than judging solely on the basis of facebook likes or indivine votes... there are many talented writers here who need to be recognized. I like your idea of rating each post on a scale of 0-100... well said ranjith

Ranjith
from hyderabad |

Thank you

Sairam Rajamani
from Bangalore |

@Monica

When you vote for 100 and get back 50 votes you are better than the other 99 people by 49 votes. The situation becomes same only when all the  100 people indulge in this practice

@Aashish

I am happy that is the case. I hope that the guy who got just one vote is also read (im)partially by the editorial team. But there is a problem of discoverability. My post for this contest got 10 times more traffic and hopefully some loyal visitors as well. This would have been three times more if my post had been on the first page. So there are intangible benefits generated by the buzz around the contest which solely goes based on the votes.

@Sorcerer

There is no rule that you should not like multiple posts. In fact, you should. Of 100 entries if you cant like even 10 then you must be salman rushdie :) We are talking about the other extreme. where one reads 100 posts and promotes, say, 95 of them. I am happy for you that you got what you wanted from this contest. I am just saying you would have got 3 times better results in terms of clickthrough if you had been on first page (or the other way round). And who comes on first page is manipulated by spreading around the promote clicks which is unfair in my opinion.

@Kimi

Bloggers vote back, comment ,follow back when you vote, comment,follow for them. This is ,in fact considered as an etiqueete. It does not work 100% of time. But it works like 30% of time. But less than 1% of general readers comment (or click on google instant reaction) when they come to your blog. Given two hypothetical scenarioes of

a)100 readers from indivine coming to your blog

b)100 readers from indivine whose post you have voted for coming to your blog

You would end up with way more promote clicks on case (a)

If you don't believe me try not promoting anybody in the next contest and see where your post will be.

@Ranjith

It is not a fault with bloggers. In any forum this group dynamics exists. Digg is floundering because they were not able to overcome it. Reddit is doing better because they are managing it better. It is Indiblogger that needs to do something about it. But I don't agree with the criticism about the title being too attractive. That's the same thing like us judging a movie by a review or trailer or actors. But remember, the title is still in your control.

@harish

No, I am not addressing to the people who are doing it. I addressing to the people who are suffering : fellow bloggers and Indiblogger

The Sorcerer
from Mumbai |

But does it really happen? I liked so many posts and very people liked me back (duh I am not from their genre). Maybe it might seem that way because there is a common number of voting eachother, but that's because they follow that person and they like their work. Most likely its a co-incidence.

Harish Ghodki
from Gwalior, Bhopal, India. |

That's what I'm saying, you cannot address it to the people who are doing it!

I have always hated the like system, but then again it is the only system that is fast enough to produce results, which may or may not be flawed. Yes, there is no knowing whether someone actually likes something, or not when someone votes/likes.

I had earlier raised the issue of commenting, how there are so many likes but no comments from indibloggers, because they are true reflection of whether a person has read the content or not. But it sure is no brainer that such a discussion was not entertained.

The fact is it's the freedom that drives movement. If you try to generate effective voting, then you begin restricting the movement, people don't like to be bound by set of rules, especially when there were none and all of a sudden they are brought to face some.

And don't address people as sufferers, it very much depends on what you expect from indibloggers. I am here to talk to fellow indian bloggers and so I do on forums. I do get a few votes and I am joyed. You can always build a relationship and expand your network, and that's gonna take time, and believe me some of the highest vote getters have done that and hence they have an edge while receiving votes, your familiar presence counts big time. You are here to compete then your concern is genuine but a great count of votes would definitely require enough patience and quality content.

Ranjith
from hyderabad |

You mentioned that Reddit is doing better but I wonder if it is really so. I have never come accross any blog specifying about Reddit and I do not even know how that site looks like.

The title is what atttracts a reader first than any other thing.

Sairam Rajamani
from Bangalore |

@Kimi

Sorry I wanted to say

You would end up with way more promote clicks on case (b) not (a)

Arti
from Mumbai |

I agree that the indivine system is a bit flawed, earlier there was only a promote button... Now there is a view post to promote...
And I personally love to read different varieties from poems to pics to stories etc... It is not always possible to comment on each blog that you visit though I do leave comments most of the times.

Ranjith
from hyderabad |

The new system is nothing better than the old. The view post to promote button makes no difference with a pop up blocker. MAy be, limiting the votes per day will help.

Arti
from Mumbai |

@Ranjith You sure we can block the pages?! Sorry, but I have no idea on this!

As for the limiting votes per day suggestion, i think it's kind of absurd to put such a cap on the freedom of the blogger. I mean if someday I wish to devote my time to Indivine for say the entire day, why should indiblogger stop me from doing that? I personally wouldnt like that restriction forced on me. 'How many blogs I want to read today?' ... that should be a blogger's choice solely, i feel.

Ranjith
from hyderabad |

On IE, insert the google toolbar and turn on pop up blocker on the toolbar.

The restriction can be a pretty high number. May be 200. Can someone read more than that. Even if he wishes to, he might copy the URL's onto notepad and vote for tehm the next day.

Ranjith
from hyderabad |

If that is the case, why should there be a restriction on indiVine submissions to two per day? I might be the person who writes on ten blogs, each of them updated every day.

Arti
from Mumbai |

If the restriction is gonna be so high, then the whole point of this entire restriction exercise is rendered meaningless.

Arti
from Mumbai |

I think its 2 posts/ blog and not two posts/person.

And for one blog, i guess, two posts in 48 hrs is really more than enuf. In that way, it also prevents the indivine from a massive post-flood :P

Ranjith
from hyderabad |

I thought it to be two posts per person. Thanks for the information.

Ranjith
from hyderabad |

It is 24 and not 48 hours. But still it has a problem. Rather than keeping it per 24 hours, it has to be made one day. For example, if I add two posts to indivine today at 5:00 pm. I should be able to add two more posts tomorrow at 8:00 am. That would be better.

Arti
from Mumbai |

It is effectively 1 post per day.

Ranjith
from hyderabad |

No, it is two per day and not one.

Arti
from Mumbai |

May be, yes... I really dont know coz I always put up one post at a time. Thus, I have never had that issue anyways :)

TF Carthick
from Bangalore |

I think what may work is instead of a vote, if we had a system where the reader gets to give a rating on a scale of 1-10 but rating is not revealed to the author. The author gets it only as a vote and he gets an average rating only if he/she gets more than 10 votes so that he only knows only who all gave him/her ratings but not what ratings each one gave.

Ranjith
from hyderabad |

Nice suggestion!

Arti
from Mumbai |

Yep, good one..

Anukriti Sharma
from Hartford |

Yes that is indeed a very good suggestion!

RioZee
from Out of this yEt in this World |

Real great suggestion @The Fool.

TF Carthick
from Bangalore |

Though everyone seems to indicate increase in traffic/comments from Indiblogger, I have experienced no such phenomena. I got no comments for my Dove post and 1 comment (Incidentally from the person who started this thread, Sairam. Thanks,) for my HP post from here. (All other comments were from friends from other forums). I have got a few votes though. Not sure if people have read my post or not. Even I have voted for quite a few without commenting. But definitely read all of what I voted for. But I vote for anything i read, irrespective of whether I really like it or not, because having taken the effort to read I atleast want to let the author know I have read by voting.Too lazy to login to blogger id and comment though unless person has commented on mine.

Farida Rizwan
from Bangalore |

I am a bit held up today and cannot go through all the replies .. you have brought up a good topic.  I usually check out my blogs and when I see a comment, I visit the commentors blog to see who is the person who left behind that particular comment, at times a surf the blog a little and leave a comment too. When going through indivine I try to find some new bloggers and visit their page and more often I vote for them. 

When I submit a post and someone votes for me I very often assume someone has read my post and like with blog posts I visit their blog. If I like the post I vote for them. There is not much to dislike in the blogs as most of the bloggers are good. 

What I feel is there should be ratings. I have found some blogs to be excellent and some not so good but nothing so bad that it doesn't deserve a vote.  So the fools suggestion if implemented would be good. 

Sairam Rajamani
from Bangalore |

@Farida is the typical blogger. They go to the person who comments/votes on her post. The problem is when someone abuses this etiqueete/trust by just going through all the posts and clicking on promote button.

The truth is they do not even comment on it because it takes time to read and comment.That is why I raised this topic. This exists in all forums to varying extent.  The key is how the platform overcome this.

Some overcome by

1)better discoverability

2)sheer volume of participants

3)diverse nature of people (people who submit to digg and reddit or not the content producers alone. Many just came across some blog/site and digg it. They do not have any vested interests.)

Indiblogger is unique because bloggers submit their posts (readers don't submit)

The volume is less. (Especially when a contest happens you can see that the contest posts occupy the top slots of "most popular in 48 hrs/week/month)

But as @Ranjith

It lies on Indiblogger to solve the issue. It would be interesting to see how they go about it.

Anukriti Sharma
from Hartford |

Well what I think is that -  promotes and likes should not be the basis for judging a contest... A contest should be based on content and number of comments on the post(on the blog). Editors should have the discretion of choosing the entries based on relevance and writing skills. I agree with the people here who proposed the idea of a scaling system... That would be beneficial for not only to the bloggers but also to the editors/people who choose winners!

Sudarshan Varadhan
from Chennai |

all of u have neglected the omnipresent problem of gender discrimination of a queer kind. girls with mildly attractive profile pictures seem to be getting more votes and comments. female bloggers may like the attention they're getting but at the end of the day, they gotta realize that its their picture that's earned them traffic and not their piece. i don't know if there is a solution to this problem but the situation will definitely change for good if girls can do something about their profile pics. i may get thrashed for this comment by self-proclaimed champions of women's cause but i'm please try to understand that i'm only trying to elucidate a predominant problem

Ahimaaz Rajesh
from India |

That's sound and valid but at the same time so may male bloggers be getting the same attraction, and you never can tell but can tell the same for the differently oriented. The discrimination is there for sure but isn't genderly either there or here but everywhere it appears.

TF Carthick
from Bangalore |

If you can't beat them, join them.

The Sorcerer
from Mumbai |

Nah! You are SO right. Girls might consider it as a "sexist" comment but its a fact and fact is way more clear.

Farida Rizwan
from Bangalore |

Hmmm NO! You will not be trashed. At least there is an indication in it towards my cuteness ... 

umesh derebail
from Mumbai |

Promoting everybody makes it a farce, but know bloggers and one's own circle is good for mutual benefit.  I agree with your take that one should have reciprocal understanding for promotion even though commenting on each and every post may not be possible

Farida Rizwan
from Bangalore |

The problem Sudarshan mentioned and Socerer agreed upon lays with whom guys? Not with girls who look cute.. they are made that way. It is with the guys who fall for those looks and vote the blog without checking out on it. Now just to make the voting fair we cannot demand those pretty young girls out there to look ugly or hide themselves. We already have a forum thread where Mr.Umesh discussed about having profile picture where I disagreed with him .. and now I disagree with this too because finally it is the bloggers choice. The problem of beautiful girls taking advantage can be solved only by blinding the men who fall for their looks LOL. I was kidding.. don't try that. 

The Sorcerer
from Mumbai |

Yeah just for the record I am not blinded that easily...nah I don't fall for lame tricks!!

Farida Rizwan
from Bangalore |

For a moment there with your vote and the discussion I was misled Wink

Sudarshan Varadhan
from Chennai |

ya basically there is no solution to this problem :P

Sairam Rajamani
from Bangalore |

What's up with the forum? It shows 52 replies in the summary section. But only shows 21 replies

Arti
from Mumbai |

52 is individual replies (the ones that appear with the profile pic, take your own example here) + cumulative replies (like the one that I am doing right now, replies that are made to a reply basically). 21 is only individual.

Sairam Rajamani
from Bangalore |

Somebody suggested anonymous voting. That will kill the whole system because, then nobody would promote. Part of promoting is because there is a promise of reciprocation. (Just as in comments)

The best I have heard is the rating system where the rating is revealed. So you get to see who has rated you but not what they have rated. Seems sound if you ask me.

Ahimaaz Rajesh
from India |

In the case of anon. voting, as you say, the voter must be revealed but what the rating s/he gave mustn't be. I, however, fail to see the bright side of it because even this can be taken advantage of, skewed and partial no matter what.

Arti
from Mumbai |

Agreed even this will be of no major help, it was me who suggested anonymous voting.