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Your views on anna hazare's 16 august fast.

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Mayur
from goa |

There seems to be no discussion on important things going in the country. So thought of getting ur views on the Anna hazare's fast on 16 august.

As many of u may be aware how government is trying to fool people by passing "Jokepal". According to Gov PM, Judges and other politicians should not come under the lokpal. Their reason "Lokpal will misuse this power" but if u read the civil societies lokpal bill draft all this doubts will be cleared lokpal will have no power to take action against Pm and other politicians. It will hear the publics complains and investigate it and if corruption is found action will be taken by the court and not lokpal. also gov says that "people will give false complaints to disgrace somebody" but lokpal doesnt work like that if the complaint is found baseless a penalty will be imposed on the complainer.

Kapil sibal has continued his trend of stupid media statements but today ambika soni joined him she says "Can Anna hazare gurantee that there will be zero corruption after the bill is passed" I dont know what type of foolish argument is this means according to her till there is 100% gurantee that a law works it should not be passed. Its like before appointing a watchman u ask him whether there is 100% gurantee that no theft will occur, It wont but the thieves have some second thoughts before stealing. Same is with the Lokpal.

Replies 1 to 9 of 9

Ankit
from Delhi NCR |

One line for Anna "Fighting for Good cause with Bad intentions"

Mayur
from goa |

I am curious what bad intentions that might be. Can u pls elaborate?

Ankit
from Delhi NCR |

He himself want to be in the lokpal committee. Ask him to leave the committe and govt will accept all the other things, he would refuse. What he want is a reputable govt position for himself.

Waise bhi India me 40% gharo me 2 time chula jalta hai because of corruption only. Govt. Jobs me salary is almost nil.

Mayur
from goa |

Do you even know wat ur talking about?. First go and read something about Anna life. He is not new to this he is been protesting agaisnt social evil for many decades now. He live in a 8X10 room in Ralegan Sidhi. You should really visit it because i did when i was in Pune and a study tour was taken there if u would see the village and wat Anna has did for it tears will come in ur eyes. He even gave his personal land for the social causes of the village. If wanted any politican position, nobody would actually contest against him because they now they will loose for sure. Anna has had many offers from poiltical party to join them but he never accepted. Do u want to say that he has been suddenly having political ambtions at such old age?

And wat u think they are showering money on the people who are in the commitee "Anna wants to be in commitee" i really LOL on that.

Govt jobs dont pay well man where are u living? Atleast all the gov workers i know have very good basic salary. My aunty who is a gov school teachers has a salary around 18-19k i think with all the benefits.

Atleast do some research before commenting.

Mohan
from Bangalore |

i wanna enjoy the freedom that many have fought for. let me cherish what i have today. corruption is another issue which anyways be the matter of focus for rest of the week.

Mayur
from goa |

Ok enjoy your freedom in this corruption filled society. You wont feel what others feel till  you are forced to pay lakhs of rupees to get admission even after u get 88% in 12th you dont have to pay 400 rs to the officer to get a income certficate you dont have to pay 200 rs to speed up the license getting process.

Mohan
from Bangalore |

Sure, I will enjoy today atleast.

What are you going to achieve by simply fuming? Why can't you get things done without having to pay bribe? taking bribe is as good as giving! Things have to start from within. You don't even need ANNA for such smaller things.

Mayur
from goa |

@mohan

K next time i want to get admission without paying bribe i will start my own college or i will wait for some months to get income certificate till the due date of services which i want to avail to from the economical weak category are expired really thanks for the suggestions.

Mohan
from Bangalore |

Now you are getting to the point. If you can get things done in months or years, why can't we have a timeframe based SLA for all govt related work? That should be the whole point of discussion. That is where everything will culminate after all the lokpal debacle.

We need to focus on solving not just the right problems but also in the right way.

Vyankatesh
from Mumbai |

Read my thoughts about The Jan Lokpal Bill

Mayur
from goa |

Today the debate is not about whether there should be or not a lokpal bill at the last fast the gov accepted to pass the bill this fast is about the weak lokpal bill proposed by gov it is truly a "jokepal" some of the funny points in it eg. if a complainers complaint does not have enough proofs the complainer can get min 2yrs in jail and if the complain is proved the corrupt person will get 6 months jail.

You suggest to strethen the current institutions against corruption. Janlokpal demands that the CBI corruption bureau to come under lokpal so in one way we can say that they will use the same resources and try to strethen it.

Reading your article i feel u didnt read the actual janlokpal bill i would request u to do so as u read the more finer details the concept becames more clear.

Mohan
from Bangalore |

Mayur - please read through the document carefully before making any comments. From your comments, i can very clearly make out that you haven't read it in detail. you are simply going by what others are saying.

Mayur
from goa |

@Mohan

Sir will u pls point out which points ur talking about i will be very willing to show u the proper refernce from the janlokpal bill

Mohan
from Bangalore |

Mayur - There are 4 pillars on which democracy runs:

  • Legislature
  • Executive
  • Judiciary
  • Press

If all of these are bought under one roof, there will be nuances wrt conflict of interest. All these have to work independently only then the true democracy will survive. Again, focus should be on not just solving right problems but solving them RIGHT.

Mayur
from goa |

@mohan

How is ur comment related to janlokpal bill i really cant figure it out.

Mohan
from Bangalore |

That is why I said read the draft carefully before commenting.

Mayur
from goa |

@mohan

I always thought democracy's main element was the public as it "of the people" "by the people" "for the people" but i see that in ur democracy there is no place for him.

Mohan
from Bangalore |

ignorance is a bless in disguise at times...

Mayur
from goa |

@mohan

You must be a real navjyot singh siddhu fan never answer the questions in straight always twist all the answers to make the other person look stupid. You should really go into politics you have grat future in it.

Mohan
from Bangalore |

Sorry if I made you feel so Mayur. That is not at all my intention. 

Unless we don't understand things in depth, we shouldn't simply pass comments by just following what others talk about. We got to use our brains as well to come up with our own assessment of things and then take a call on it.

I am not saying what Team Anna doing is right or not. But unless we know what exactly the issues are and how to tackle them, we always get misled. Better to stay DETAILED.

Mayur
from goa |

@mohan

So i said pls point out the points in my comments on janlokpal bill which u thought i commented without referncing to the bill and by listening to somebody else i will be more than happy to provide u with the reference. but u started talking about democracy and stuff.

Mayur
from goa |

@mohan

If ur pointing to the false complain point i made in the comment then read the billproposed by gov

it is under chapter "offences and penalties" page 50.

Mayur
from goa |

Seeing your commenting i remmembered a childhood story "A hen and its freinds once decide to bake a bread. So the hen brings seeds and asks the other to help her sow it but the freinds give her some reason and avoid the work. The hen alone sows the seeds. Then the wheat starts growing and hen asks the freinds to help her harvest the wheat but again they say that they have other work and avoid it hen harrvests the wheat alone then hen asks the freinds to help to thrash and grind the wheat again the freinds avoid she does that alone then for final time she asks the frends to help her bake the bread again freinds avoid then she bakes the bread and smelling the lovely bread all her freinds come to her to get their share but the hen tells them that she wont give them a single piece because they dont want to any hard work but profit from others sacrifice"

So if u are intelligent enough u will understand how it applies to u. Thank u and have a good day

Animesh
from Mumbai |

The problem with some people when they cannot do logical reasoning, they start blaming others. Rather than proving someone wrong logically, they force people to follow what they say. And when they are unable to do so, they term them with names.

Blaming and flaming is easy, debating is not and debating logically is certainly not a cup f tea for everyone.

Animesh
from Mumbai |

Would like to add some more thing, title of the thread says "Your views on Anna Hazare's fast" and the description says you want a discussion on this. Never knew it meant endorsing some specific point of view only and if someone does not do that, he will be called names.

When you invite for discussions and views, be preapred for some views which may be against your views and if you cannot defend them logically, at least do not offend someone and call names. 

Mayur
from goa |

I treid to clear all ur earlier doubts in the post logically providing proper refrences from the bill but in return you commented some obscure things like u said u were not talking about lokpal bill when clearly in all the points u specifically pointed lokpal bill. And in the heading u wrote "why i oppose anna" and u gave points telling why u oppose lokpal bill , for ur knowledge lokpal bill is not new. It was first proposed by shanti bhusan when he was law minister under morarji gov but due to the gov collapsing the bill was not passed now so much decades have passed and it is still not passed. So stop projecting as if the lokpal bill is Anna personal bill or something

And ur talking about ethics like how all the public first should stop being corrupt. First  how can u point fingures on others. u talk about urself say that i am corrupt and so i see the whole world through that perspective. I dont care about others i try to be as honest as possible.

Mayur
from goa |

@Animesh

I treid to clear all ur earlier doubts in the post logically providing proper refrences from the bill but in return you commented some obscure things like u said u were not talking about lokpal bill when clearly in all the points u specifically pointed lokpal bill. And in the heading u wrote "why i oppose anna" and u gave points telling why u oppose lokpal bill , for ur knowledge lokpal bill is not new. It was first proposed by shanti bhusan when he was law minister under morarji gov but due to the gov collapsing the bill was not passed now so much decades have passed and it is still not passed. So stop projecting as if the lokpal bill is Anna personal bill or something

And ur talking about ethics like how all the public first should stop being corrupt. First  how can u point fingures on others. u talk about urself say that i am corrupt and so i see the whole world through that perspective. I dont care about others i try to be as honest as possible.

Mayur
from goa |

I treid to clear all ur earlier doubts in the post logically providing proper refrences from the bill but in return you commented some obscure things like u said u were not talking about lokpal bill when clearly in all the points u specifically pointed lokpal bill. And in the heading u wrote "why i oppose anna" and u gave points telling why u oppose lokpal bill , for ur knowledge lokpal bill is not new. It was first proposed by shanti bhusan when he was law minister under morarji gov but due to the gov collapsing the bill was not passed now so much decades have passed and it is still not passed. So stop projecting as if the lokpal bill is Anna personal bill or something

And ur talking about ethics like how all the public first should stop being corrupt. First  how can u point fingures on others. u talk about urself say that i am corrupt and so i see the whole world through that perspective. I dont care about others i try to be as honest as possible.

Animesh
from Mumbai |

How is it that whatever you say becomes logical and whatever I say becomes non-sense? If you read and understand the article in toatlity, you'll see that its not against lokpal bill only, its against any such bill till the time basic corrections are not done in the system. In the same article, I have also said that let's bring a more stringent bill, but that will also not help if system is not corrected. As far as opposing Anna is concerned, it should be read with my earlier point where I said "I do not support Anna". I may have chosen correct words which could make it clear that I am not opposing Anna as a person or his intentions, but somehow I do not believe that any such bill can do any good.

Coming to your logical points, from the very first comment, you made it seem like I have no knowledge of things and write just for the sake of writing, would give a suggestion. When debating or discussing, don't offend personally. You can put your point in far more positive manner. Your very first line starts with try googling sometimes as if I'm unaware of it.

As far as ethics are concerned, I have not advised others by removing myself. I have used pronouns like us or we which off-course includes myself.

Mayur
from goa |

the bills are needed to make laws to make this basic corrections. so u want say that all the people should stop corrupt and when all the corruption ends then make the laws and start institutions to stop the corruption when its already halted man does that even make any sense?

and i really thought u were not aware of Google no offence but u say u knew abt google earleir then accept it.

i m actually offended by ur use of "we" and "us" because i too come in that we and us and how can u group me with other corrupt people i am really offended by it.

And pls asnwer this question frankly "Did u really read both the gov and jan Lokpal bills"?

Mayur
from goa |

and i really thought u were not aware of Google no offence but u say u knew abt google earleir then I* accept it.

Animesh
from Mumbai |

I am not saying that unless all corrupt practices are stopped, don't make the bill. Bill will anyway be not required in that case. What I'm saying is correct the system first so that the bill does not fall prey of it. You bet, whatever bills you make politicians will find out a way of it, let's start electing correct people first by exercising our voting rights and corruption in small things can be seized immediately. Someone said he bribes a traffic constable becase he is being asked for it. Why do we break the law in the first place and get caught? Isn't it some sort of corruption?

I was not aware of Google? You must be kidding, right? Man, how can you imagine a blogger and someone who frequently uses internet won't know about it? If you were serious (were you? really??), FYI I'm a software engineer by profession and Google is bread and butter for our breedCool.

Coming to the use of "us" and "we"... nothing in this world is 100% true or false and gramatiaclly speaking, these pronouns do not represent 100% of the population. They are meant to represent only those who fall into the particular criteria. In this case, they do not represent you because you do not fall in that criteria. Hope you are not offended anymoreCool.

Yes, I've read both of them and I've copy of Jan-Lokpal bill in doc format published by India Against Corruption.

FYI, I have corrected the sentence where I had said that I oppose Anna. I have changed it to I do not support him. Hope you understand the difference between the two.

If there is anything more, you can comment on my blog as well.

Jinoy Viswan
from Dubai |

The Mahatma always believed that the Disobedience campaign and the Satyagraha are very powerful in nature and should be exercised only when our every other recourse has failed.

Ganghi could control the mob purely on his Moral Uptightedness, Character and unwavering belief in Ahimsa and Satyagraha...Something which I don't find in Anna. The Mob, which has proves to be Extremely Non Violent till day, can run amok if something does not go their way. Also the pillar of Satyagraha is RESPECT generated by all involved including your oppnents. Gandhi commanded that respect even from the British, where as Anna had antagonised the Govt even before his campaign.So u see, though I press for a Strong Lokpal Bill, I may not be for Anna.

For that reason, Only for that reason, I have my reservations in support Anna. Anna is seen as someone who is imposing his version on to the nation. Agreed that the corrupt politicians, Democratic instituitions and the Government has made a mockery of this bill but the right way to approach is through our Judiciary and through Democratic processes mandated in the Constitution.

Democracy may not be enough but that is the best that we have today.

Jinoy Viswan

Deepthi Ramdas
from Thrissur, Kerala |

I think and strongly feel Anna Hazare is fighting for a brilliant cause, in a peaceful manner. I wonder how a peaceful mark such as a fasting strike and a criminal act like bribing and corruption can receive such conflicting differing punishments. The punishments should probably be the opposites. Our Constitution talks about 101 laws and punishments on disobeying those laws, but how many of those laws and punishments are being followed in the way it is supposed to be. I would rather stand for 1 or 2 laws and strict punishments that are being followed. Years back, Gandhiji fought for our freedom. He suffered oppositions in various forms and was followed by a number of people. In spite of he being jailed many times, he bought us freedom. So hopefully, Anna will also bring in the Jan Lokpal Bill to proper existence. Someone has to bring in a change. If not us, maybe Hazare

Animesh
from Mumbai |

Deepthi, that is the point. There already are laws and this bill will also become one of them. We should fight to correct the system and enforce laws. That will be a better aproach.

umesh derebail
from Mumbai |

Jan Lokpal bill will only succeed if proper infrastructure is provided, secondly it should be able to work on deadlines unlike judiciary.  Finally all prosecution and seizure should be handled by CBI and the highest judiciary in the state on fast track basis.  It should be equavalent to court martial.Smile  Good topic for debate Mayur kudos.  

Let us mourn the first victim of  Jan Lokpal bill Shiela Masood has been killed brutally, who was is martyr for post independent freedom from corruption