Do you like posts which use incorrect language?

No response?Am i the only one who fels this way?

WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY INCORRECT LANGUAGE ??

Read the description above and then the full thread, you'll know what she means

And BTW, typing in caps symbolizes shouting. Hope you are aware of it

@animesh: am asking to her, not to you.... i don't know that shouting STYLE and all.....

@animesh: sorry bro, i think i was harsh :( sob sob !

I am not too sure of my opinion on this. I like good English and appreciate people who make use of good language. But again language is for communication and I wonder if it does not serve the purpose as long as the reader understands what the writer is trying to say. After all what is good and what is bad? Good is subscribing to the rules of language made by someone in the past? Is it bad for someone to chart their own path by creating their own version of the language by mixing elements of a different language as long as the readers understand? Has the time for evolution of languages ended. Aren't new languages going to be created in this generation. Are we to freeze only languages created so far and from now on, does humanity have to use only the existing languages as per the rules defined in the past?

At heart, I also love good English and hate Chetan Bhagat style language. But my head asks me these pertinent questions for which my heart finds no answers. Maybe someone else can find answers.

Using vernacular phrases in between, on IB is understandable-no harm....but not even taking care of singular plural ?Is it so very difficult or unavoidable?Yes language keeps evolving;but what will happen if i introduce my innovations & you ,your own ?We hear of new slang words making an entry every other day;but so far as understanding is concerned, people of my age find it difficult to catch up with that.Therefore all this is relative & has it's pros & cons.

Somehow i cannot digest glaring errors.If a person wants to write in English s/he ought to at least take care of the basics. Of course SMS language or acronyms or even typing mistakes do not come under this category.Ultimately it is all a matter of personal choice ;but while reading some posts is a pleasure,some other ones only irritate you.

I most of the times, try to follow the rules of grammer but often tend to change them to suit my style because the faulty sentences at times appeal to me much more than the gramatically correct ones. And I can strongly say that none can come up with a post completely free of grammatical errors, expected for the PhD holders of the Eglish language because there are a number of rules which we are not aware of and learning them all and trying to follow them rips us of the joy we get from composing a blog post. Coming to spelling and typographical mistakes, I use Spell Checker in Word to correct them. I also proof read a second time but a number of them go unnoticed. 

Agree Ranjith. Specially in my niche, it is compulsary sometimes to do so. For example, if I am charcaterizing a person from a village, he is not supposed to know Good English :)

Its not about phd. Even if you have phd you can still make mistakes dues to oversight. Thats why published works need editing.

If pieces are not in order, the final picture will never come out good! But a painting drawn with passion and zeal will be appealing even if some colors are not mixing and matching perfectly or spilling out of the borders.

If the post appeals to me and my senses, it's all good even with those mistakes. If the post is drab and sketchy and fails to impress me as a reader, then no degree of grammatical perfection can prevent me from clicking that small cross on the upper right hand corner of the screen.

Overall, i think it depends on an individual and his perspective.. what he's making of it, but one should definitely respect one's readers and pay attention to not only the point that one wishes to convey through the post but exactly how you want it to be conveyed as well.

I believe we as Indians cannot claim perfection over English whether spoken or written, of course many of us may be using it as linga francha, may even dream, think and wish in English.  The fact of the matter is that a reasonable degree of coherent language is necessary which needs to be logical in presentation to make the readers involved.  Once that is achieved i feel minor errata in grammer can be ignored.

Well, if the post I am reading has flimsy language (as in numerous grammar mistakes, etc), I do get frustrated. And a lot of the time I lose interest unless there is something really in it.

Same reason why I do not enjoy Bhagat's books. Light reads with a language that is casual is okay but upto a limit. After that I just want something with something in it. :P

Of course I may well be speaking for myself. And I have to admit that I have enjoyed several posts with language that is flimsy because of their content.

Ok... You're right from a language-lover's perspect but "Indians by birth, bloggers by choice" demand little more concession when it comes of writing or speaking English... This lot deserves pardon to be granted and treated with empathy as long as the view is prismatic and voice reaches our ear... what do you say?

Obviously i am in a minority on this topic...must say i am highly disappointed....i had expected more lovers of the English language to come forward....i believe that if something is worth doing ,it is worth doing WELL.

"i believe that if something is worth doing ,it is worth doing WELL" Oops...pardon me i really can't imagine a world where half of its human population is entirely perfect and the other half is in still mode (as they aren't perfect!).... come on buddy, take it this way--- our mind doesn't even obey grammer... we think of now, then in a millisecond what we did a couple of yrs back flashes in the same mind... substance should be rich and language is succhessful as long as it coveys what the author intends to say....  cheers :)

i think for a good writer, grammar and articulation comes with a flow. but again, as TF said, we cant judge what is good and what is bad. that i think is a matter of perspective. I may not like something that has erroneous grammar(like R2020) but other people in my place might find it appealing due to its different viewpoint, story line etc etc. 

I am being bold and taking an example here- I found the book I too had a love story one of the worst books i have ever read. right from the first LINE i found it get on my nerves. the dude starts in present tense and then goes on narrate the entire thing in past tense. I had a major fight with a guy on FB over this too... and i got the tags of "heartless" to "stone hearted" :P :P

but then there are books which despite a hell lot of grammar mistakes can be considered as BEST books. Forrest Gump for example. All the sentences are un-grammatical but its endearing in its own way. because you UNDERSTAND that it is a dumb guy writing and the point of using such language is clear.you know it for a fact that all the mistakes are INTENTIONAL. but an educated software engg lamenting over his unfinished love story, using silly metaphors, jokes which would make you cry and forget your sense of humor and literally NO writing style is a big no-no for me :P

and if stories like THIS are becoming national bestsellers, i wonder why Leo and TF havent become INTERNATIONALLY best-selling authors. I honestly got soooooo depressed after reading that horrible story that i had to take a soothing dose of Ruskin Bond... and i am not KIDDING :P :P

 i think language is something that is dynamic and... progressive. it undergoes changes all the time. so something that I think is correct, may be stamped as incorrect by some other. But changing something so much that the ESSENCE of ENGLISH is lost i too much... 

so frankly, though i try to take a broad view on topics like these, i find it very difficult to read or hear something that is grammatically wrong. Or even spelling wise. It leaps out to your eye and makes the whole reading process very unsatisfactory. But geniuses like Winston Groom make you love such stuff too :)

and SMS language??? oh sorry... i dont even think it is a LANGUAGE :P

@Kirti My god I totally agree. A lot of the times it is the content that matters.

But there has to be a level of maturity in the language. Everyone cannot be Amitav Ghosh...but R2020 was unbearable. I read a book called "Trust Me" and right now it is stashed in a place where my eyes will not go :P

And it is not just about the grammar...it is about the flow. How one chapter ends and the other begins. That matters a lot.

So even though I can be a real grammar police sometimes, I do believe that if you can express yourself sincerely and passionately, it will show. R2020 was not even close to being sincere :P

And SMS language...aah I have to admit I used to write like that long time back. And then I realised how I was writing in short forms EVERYWHERE. That kind of scared me and now I even text with full words most of the time :P

I agree... its really irritating that most of the people who come to borrow books for me first hunt for Chetan Bhagat books (and Twilight sadly) They ask for my suggestion and when i hand them "The kite runner" or Fynman's book, they dont even bother to LOOK at it. wohi ghuma phira ke vo ek-do books hi lete hain.

and i am trying to stuff R2020 and I too had a love story out my sight too... but mera shelf tere jitna bada nahi hai :P

and true. the stories which dont have flow become a full on drag. 

Hi-Five to the grammar police!! yaar... mat bol... koi banda apni dead GF ke bare me likh raha tha to i GOT it ki he was being VERY passionate but thoda ZYADA hi ho gaya tha :P i mean would you believe it, while describing the girl- she was beautiful, her hair fell on her ears, etc etc etc. and then he writes- she laughed. she had a lot of teeth

can you BELIEVE that??????? i nearly CRIED reading that. kisi ladki ko koi bole you have a LOT of TEETH, chappal khol ke nahi maaregi???? :P :P

and please R2020 ke bare me please mat bol. I always try to block that from my mind. :P and CLOSE???? faaaaaar off from it.

and yes, even i text with full words. i keep it in the dictionary mode :P

Kirti, thanks for a hearty laught on a lazy sunday morning

kisi ladki ko koi bole you have a LOT of TEETH, chappal khol ke nahi maaregi????

If I start on his topic...I won't stop.

Oh and I read the first of the Shiva trilogy. Sadly I am kind of disappointed. I didn't expect Shiva to talk like a 21st century teenager :P

yeah i remember you ranting over that... you think i should read it too ??? :P

well Ani... dont you think its true enough?? :P i mean... koi dumbass hi aise comment karega vo bhi ye soch ke he is COMPLIMENTING...

yaar, pata nahi maine kabhi itanee himmat nahi kee ki kisi ladki ko aise bolu (except if she is a close friend in which case teasing is natural), so no comment

lol :P ok and to answer your question that you asked on Indi- yes i USED to have lots of teeth :P but now i have a perfect set thanks to 3 years of painful orthodontic treatment :P so you see... that comment in the book stung personally :P :P

and  i think... we are straying off the topic...atleast i am :P :P

Disclaimer: I am usually on the guilty side here, i tend to make a lot of mistakes and spelling errors.

Now my answer:

I don't write mainly to win over an audience, I love audience but again the real reason i write is to convey a thought. Many a times i do not plan to write,I write as soon as inspiration strikes me ,and when you write while you are thinking ,you tend to make mistakes(Rather I tend to make mistakes).

Now I can spend time correcting them to an extent that they are grammatically perfect or correct them to a point that the idea is conveyed.I choose latter

Talking about Chetan Bhagan and i too had a love story , when you mentioned a few lines from the book that you hated and also how you had a big fight with that guy on FB, i beleive you forgot that he was not a prolific writer.He wanted to convey a feeling and he succeded

When you talk about real life,trust me people are much more like the way Chetan Bhagat decribes rather than any other celebrated indian authors .

What is a Book? A collection of mind boggling metaphors,absolutely good grammer and tight story line or an Idea ,a thought process a story told from the eyes of the author.

I have not read I too had a love story but heard about people reading it in one night using cellphone lights,just because they could not leave it.That too people who do not read much and can hardly finsih 2,3 chapters.i bought 5 point someone at a train station and was half through till the time i was home.I read it even when boarding the train,it was damn captivating.

There must be something.To be very frank reading the lines you quoted

"he was beautiful, her hair fell on her ears, etc etc etc. and then he writes- she laughed. she had a lot of teeth"

I recollected my own first crush,these were possibly the exact thoughts i had when i had a crush .I was not thinking in terms of "When she swayed her black hair,they hid her beautiful ears as if black  clouds covering the sun on a beach":P

I was thinking..waah kya baal hain...Thats all,My mind did not go beyond that point. I never was planning to read that book but reading the exact same things that you wrote,i am tempted to read it now.That guy speaks my language.I was like that .Poetry and metaphors flow from these very basic RAW feelings.

Also when you say best books: There are 2 definitions of best books,what most people like and what critiques like. People like Ravinder and chetan bhagat won the category 1.And that's what mattered to them.They will never win Booker prize because critiques hate them.

Its the same argument between Karan Johar and maybe Madhur Bhandarkar Films.Everyone makes movies to please their target audience.Karan Johar is not aiming to win an oscar with K3G and madhur bhandarkar wants to explore real life stories.

What is right? Both

I now write poetry and try to keep it as simple as possible,using the bare minimum tools of language.I am tempted to sometimes throw in some Buzzwords,some good grammer ,some imitations from great authors but generally end up hating it.

Dont get me wrong,i am not against any famous authors, I am a fan of likes of rabindranath tagore and jane austen ,they mastered the craft of story telling but so did people like Chetam bhagat,they may not be as Critically acclaimed as many of their peers but they told stories in a way that people wanted to listen and I respect them for that

These are my 2 cents

@Madhur Ji I understand what you are trying to say here and i respect your viewpoint. but what i said was entirely MY OWN view. i said it at the very beginning that i am definitely not a good judge of what is good and what is bad. simply, it is a matter of perspective.

I never said i dislike ALL Chetan Bhagat. even i found some of them pretty good. he has a knack of reaching to the common people, just because he is ENTERTAINING, and i was no exception to that :P he has excellent humor and ofcourse, sarcasm always works with me... i have read all of his books to date. but honestly, after a good read like Five point someone and Two states, the recent was a depressing disappointment.

 and relating to Ravinder, to be very frank, I COULDNT RELATE WITH WHAT HE WROTE. it didnt and would never TOUCH MY HEART. and for me, when i read a book and it doesnt touch me, i start being critical and my mind points out to me all the mistakes! call me naive but thats how my system works and i honestly cant help that :P 

and ofcourse i didnt forget he wasnt a PROLIFIC writer! but ALL writers after their DEBUT novel are just like that! NOT prolific. Aravind Adiga. I never thought he was a prolific writer too! and tell you what, his white tiger touched my heart MORE than I too had a love story ANYDAY.(though they are completely different genres but i mentioned it since we were talking about the WAY authors express their feelings)

and when it comes to him conveying his 'feeling', he was writing a tragic love story wasnt he?? if people liked the essence of his story then why did they flinch back from a MARY WASTMACOTT novel?? why did they flinch from a "Thousand splendid suns" when i suggested it to them??? 

tragic?? oh YES. and conveying of feelings?? i think these books convey a hell lot better than his novel ANYTIME. but then, that is solely MY opinion.

i dont blame people for liking something I didnt like. no, that would be totally wrong on my part; but when people ask for MY suggestion, a Khaled Hosseini is what i will hand to them anytime. or a Meg Cabot if they are THAT intent on reading LOVE stories :P

and honestly Madhur Ji, i never handled R2020 or I too had a love story more than say- 3 hours. I finished R2020 on the way from KGP to Kolkata(and i didnt talk for the entire day :P) I read or rather try to read all the books at the same pace. so the TIME factor in judging what I like and dont doesnt work. 

and talking about DEFINITONS of best books, i dont think you can categorize them in just two ways. language is ever changing, so are people's thoughts, their judgements and of course the writing style of authors too. you never know who might spring up with a genius tomorrow and win the hearts of all book readers- irrespective of who is a critique and who is a common guy.

and maybe Bhagat HAS mastered the art of story telling. I wouldnt know. you must be thinking i have no right in trashing other's books when i dont even have the QUALIFICATIONS to criticise them. but of the books I have read till now, i can name numerous authors who captured the art of story telling better than the authors in question. and telling stories in a way PEOPLE want to listen?? i think you are only looking at the MAJORITY. you have forgotten people like me and Antara who would rebel against such books anytime. WE come under the category of PEOPLE too dont we? dont forget us :P 

when a book is hyped for you so much that you cant wait to get your hands on it and then it turns out a total waste of your time, you would be as bitter as me :P I too had a love story happened in similar case with me. ALL my classmates were simply RAVING about that book. but right from the first page it was a disappointement me.

and mistakes? as Deepak said, none of us is perfect. we all commit b****ers in writing(i do it ALL the time) but it is upto your READERS to judge whether it is excusable or not. But I am a reader too and simply, i dont find some books to my taste.

(dont suggest me NOT to read them then, because to judge even 0.001% what is good and what is bad, you need to read ALL sorts of books and thats what i try to do :) :P)

@Kirti,Antara& animesh --very interesting discussion there...a good start to a Sunday.....i value your talk about the language girls,both of you are so well informed-lol.....i think if a character speaks faulty English in accordance with his character then it does not pinch at all....like animesh also said that a villager can't be shown as speaking perfect English....on a similar strain,i have written a story in the form of a diary written by a schizophrenic....it is just like jottings of a mental patient....so naturally,the language is erroneous...i shall publish it soon....when i do;tell me what you think of it .

No one is perfect, then how can you expect a language to be a perfect one which comes from an imperfect person ?????Purpose of language is to convey the message and understand the message, what the hell these grammars and good guy shadow gonna do ??there are people who speak their minds without any filters, if you don't like them... you can ignore reading their works, instead of insulting them as poor in laguage and impervect in language ! 

Deepak we are only discussing whether bloggers should aim at correct usage of language or just flow with their ideas unmindful of grammar.... & using correct language or taking care of your style while writing is not tantamount to using filters....in fact it adds to the beauty & readability of the piece....this is not about you or any other person in particular & the intention has not been to insult anyone....one more thing-if any language in the world had not been properly presented & the syntax laid down;no meaningful conversation would have been possible---like if i say" vah jata hai" then it is clear that a boy or man goes...if i were to garble grammar how would you understand?

Madam...I must tell you one thing, do you think ENGLISH is spoken and written by the same way like people of centuries ago did ? A BIG NO !Do you think centuries later people will use the same way we use ? UNCERTAIN ! Grammar is essential but not a factor to decide the quality of blogging, we are here to share right ? or are we here for writing articles in new York times or Hindu ? We are not professionals and importantly we are HUMANS... we will commit mistake and we are committing !

@ animesh- by the way, hordes of thanks for that helpful tip....see where it has led us ? I expect similar help from you in future too.

My pleasure Indu and I am loving this discussion as well. Nice thread I must say

I write for the passion. However, I do try to put it in as much correct language as I can. No one is perfect, like Deepak says.

I remember when I started out blogging and writing in general, I used to have horrible grammar. Sometimes, I still do, as I found out when someone reviewed my work. Whatever that person had said, it was to the dot. Reading my work with that correct grammar, it made it feel so much more beautiful than it was before. So agree with you that good presentation does improve the post.

However, not every blogger looks at grammar and presentation on a very serious level. Some are personal blogs written in a diary fashion, just to put a thought on virtual paper so it can ease the mind at times, or maybe even give the blog's author more joy; and you can't go there expecting perfect grammar. There will be smileys, sms language etc. And even if we tell them that their grammar is not right, to improve on it, they might not like it.

One can always comment once to inform the writer that he/she could attempt to word it better. But if it's not something that blogger wishes to do, you can check the blog to see if a post is worth commenting n if you're comfy with it, do so, or else just be silent. I think even in such blogs as you mention, sometimes there would be a post or two that are worth a comment.

I agree with you Leo. If our readers find some fault in our writing, they have every right to say so. but then even we have our rights to accept what is ok to us. and truly when we are writing something personal, perfect grammar is not possible... especially when people like me rant :P

@LEO: well said !

@Kirti: very true, how can one expect grammar when we are abusing him/her ?? hehe LOL !after all we are bloggers to vent and voice our opinions. 

@Deepak LOL :P exactly. like i always rant when i have to let off steam over one person or the other(ofcourse the ones who dont READ my blog!!) and voicing out our opinions?? hell yeah. we always do that! :P 

About the Bhagat issue. I thought Two States was entertaining. But R2020 was not even PLAUSIBLE! There was no flow...nada...I can cite so many grammar issues that it is ridiculous. One night @ the call centre was silly and amateur.

My issue is the when people talk about Indian writers who write in English, they shout out the name is Chetan Bhagat. For heaven's sake, what did Vikram Seth do wrong? Or Amitav Ghosh?  Or any other writer who writes a little better.

Bhagat is entertaining...upto a point. After that it becomes the same old thing.

As in, you can watch romantic comedy films and enjoy them but you can't watch them ALL THE TIME. Good movies which have substance have to be watched too.

There are so many Indian writers who write in beautiful language but sadly are not given enough publicity and instead a book like R2020 becomes a best seller. So yes, I do kind of feel it is upsetting.

writes a LITTLE better?? writes a HELL LOT better.

Amitav Ghosh or Vikram Seth ki baat to chor. "Indian Youth" i dont think, wants to read them :P

since the talk is about Bhagat let me take another example. his genre in 'fun-filled-message-giving-stories' isnt it??(i know there would be many raised eye-brows over this) then why does his name pop up every time why such a genre is suggested?? has any of his readers even READ "The inscrutable Americans"?????? why isnt ANURAG MATHUR or ARAVIND ADIGA mentioned when "Indian Writers" are mentioned???

they aim for the YOUTH too isnt it?? they aim for the people like us too!!

I would vote for The inscrutable Americans ANYTIME over say... R2020 or One night at call centre.

And i agree Antara. the only reason i suggest GOOD books(like i mentioned in my rant last page :P) to people is for the reason- chalo Bhagat padhe, hase, entertain hue. now read something that would touch your heart and remain with you forever. 

and talking of publicity... tune dekha, the add of R2020???? i saw it through some blog in Indiblogger only.i wish i remembered to take its link... IT WAS SHOCKING. If his books need that sort of CHEAP publicity to reach out to his readers then.... i dont have ANYTHING to say. i am planning to take sanyas from reading books :P

but then people who disagree would say he promoted his book in way it would reach people... if this the way people are reached, then shame on them!!!

and ohhh i WISH i could get hold of that video!!!!!!!!!!!

To be honest, I actually like it when people point out whatever changes that need to be made to a piece of writing by me. I find it encouraging, since that person has obviously read whatever I have written. :D

Antara i think you would love this.

PS: this is ONLY for Antara. Bhagat lovers are NOT to see this!! :P :P