Do you vote for Indivine posts without reading it?
Indivine has been a superb addition to Indiblogger. It has really helped readers in chosing quality content without actually doing blog hopping and we get introduced to new bloggers too.
I normally reads certain posts based on the votes they got. Sometimes it has left me disappointed too, because the post might not have enough stuff in it to get this high vote.
Are people voting for posts without actually reading the post?
I am posting this under Blogging ethics, since I think a true blogger should not vote for a post unless he has read the post.
This is definitely a problem, some bloggers vote hoping they would get votes/traffic in return. We've been looking for a decent method of checking this. It would be easy to track the outgoing click, but not without denying the blogger of some linklove from IndiVine. Ideally, we should be able to do both.
A half baked solution would be to take an estimate on the time it takes to read/evaluate a post (let's call it X) and then make sure that X amount of time passes between every vote....
The moderator team has already thought about it right. Seems like it is difficult to find a solution to this problem.
Renie, your suggestion on a minimum time period between two successive votings is also good.
Some other suggestions from my part are
1. Give a "Vote for this Post" link at the end of the post in the blog's space, which has been submitted in Indivine. This button's code has to be given by Indiblogger, when any user submits a Post. User can include this button at the end of his post. When a reader clicks this button, he/she shall be asked to login (if not logged into indiblogger)
2. Vote button shall be enabled only if the user clicks, Read Post button. The algorithm can be, a user clicks "Read post" button on an indivine post. The post opens up in a new window, which has two frames. The top fram will be provided by the indiblogger. The bottom frame will be the blogspot/wordpress/blog page. After X seconds, the indiblog frame displays the "vote for this" post button. This frame can have options to navigate between different indivine submissions too. But navigation will always open the user's blog page in the bottom frame.
Indibloggers may please come up with there suggestions.
I had dedicated a complete article to this topic. I think ability to vote without having to read is a USP of IndiBlogger. Indivine perhaps gets the website max traffic for making voting so convenient.
Since the RSS feed is submitted the best way will be to send content to the voter by email and copy the author. It will be difficult to fake it in a one-on-one communication. The vote button can always fetch the content and open in a new window with some return logic the voting can be completed. Adding new buttons will be almost fatal.
I dont do that. But i feel it happens to my Indivine posts. I see votes. But If i see my blog stats not many actually visit it.
At the end of the if they dont want to change they will find some way or the other way out whatever you do.
I never do this.... I always read the blog and vote only when i like it.
I haven't voted on any post as of now, simply because I haven't read even on single post of others. Will do it later. But to my surprise, couple of posts submitted by me for indivine, have been voted, and guess what, without even being read by any one. How did I know this? Thanks to feedjit widget. Even without any additional visitors to my blogspace, my blogs are getting voted. Don't know why would somebody do this.
Well, yes that's a problem for sure. I think a particular faction of people might have decided to scratch each other's backs so their posts land at the top of the heap so to say. The only solution I can think of right now is to brainwash these people into not doing that! Well, but human nature is such, it will not listen unless convinced to do so. :)
It's just a theory. And theories are often wrong. I might be wrong too. :)
As for me, I haven't as yet read any post in detail. So, I haven't voted either.
True! It hurts to see some posts withouth any quality winning votes just because the blogger is good at networking (spamming).
I've been struggling to get a good photo essay voted.
It's a photostory with narrative about Agumbe, where the classic serial "Malgudi Days" was shot.Also, its been 25 years since the serial, the story for which was written by legendary writer R K Narayan, was first aired.It would be a tribute to a lot of people. It took a lot of passion and effort (travel, time and money) to bring the stunning images to the reader. I really want the post to win. Please read and vote if you think its worthy athttp://www.indiblogger.in/topic.php?topic=22I'd also appreciate if you could leave your comments.Cheers,JPK
I agree with @subups and @renie. It is ethically serous problem.
I appreciate the logic of @renie's 'half baked solution'
1. Activate 'Promote this Post' only after a person has clicked and goes to a original site for 'x' minutes (@renie's 'half baked solution')
2. Ask for confirmation (in case somebody accidentally hits 'Promote this Post' button
3. Add 'like this post' button which works the same way as 'Promote this Post' is currently working.
Still i rreally doubt I have got the nexk and found a perfect solution, but I hope if somebody can think on this issue and give a better suggestions
Just a month old I am on Indiblogger, right after I caught someone tweeting on Pepsi Contest which is when I signed in. I was excited initially to be moving up the ladders with the 'instant' promotions with the "Jiyo Life Moments...contest" but as I posted more links from my blog, to my shock and awe, had to observe this dismal n bitter rat race for 'bloggers' to win a contest by promoting a post without actually making the whole meaning of "promote this post" useless and inane. I wonder howcome BLOGGERS do it.
I was curious and unfortunately, I found out certain singled out bloggers who are at the helm with the votes, have actually voted for every single newcomer, right from below, who doesn't have any vote at all or few. Why? Sheer reciprocation. But can we call the winner a real blogger if he can't really appreciate someone's blog post but votes? That's sheer disrespect and discouraging for the other blogger!
As a techie, not everything we suggest would be straight forward to implement but here's my take:
1. Agree with @Indiaspirituality on #1
2. As suggested in the contest criteria, the unique verifiable comments should take precedence over "Promote this post". (I have min 10 hits each day via Google/Bing on my Fb blogposts but it hurts when people don't even acknowledg after reaping the benefits.)
3. Each day, like 24 hrs for 2 posts on Indiblogger, a blogger should be warned if he promotes more than, say, a sensible no. of posts without commenting at all.
4. As far as time line is concerned, is a good idea too, but people can deceive that as well.
5. Having an open-graph button like Indiblogger badges, right on the blogger's post on his/her site would also be good idea. This would ensure the other blogger has actually seen it once.
For eg. this post: http://bit.ly/bkw3Ny, I have 7 votes where as not a single person has even hit my post, forget comments
We are here to learn, share and improve by all the feedback. Good or Bad. Our opinions or work or writing skills need to be appreciated and IMMATURE acts need to be stopped! Else, not sure about others, but I cannot boast of the INDIRANK anymore.
Taking idea from @Biswajeet
Instead of 'Like this Post' button how about a rating system (like 5 stars) or 'below average' 'average' 'good' 'excellent'. with an optional comment below each post.
Can this factor be considered for Indirank?
I at times read posts and do not vote for them.. at times I read posts and vote for them. But sometimes I see the topic .. read it briefly and vote for it. It is difficult to read all the blogs thoroughly for me just because of time limit.
I usually try to vote for the newcomers always just to make them feel at home and encourage them. But after a few votes they have to prove themselves to be appreciated. People have always been good to me and I need to give something back.
I don't know how ethical it is but I feel obliged to vote for someone who always supports me...
It's just an observation, that the listings of the blogs/page are not enough in the indivine page. If it can be increased then it will help people voting sensibly. Currently there are 10 posts per page and it also won't tell you how many pages are there in total. If you really think from a reader's point of view, very few people will have patience to go through every page. Most people's patience will die at page 2 or 3. So blogs are in page 4+ never get much attention irrespective of the quality of the post hence very few votes.
Although you might have hundreds of blog posts but strictly speaking the competition is mainly between first 30-40 posts. It's a difficult problem to solve as I think there are several causes to it and single click vote contributes to the problem.
1. Increase the visibility- This can be done by reducing the space provided for each post (currently) in the indivine page. One full row is given to a single post, of which most of the space remains empty. If you can put multiple posts (e.g. 4) in place of one, that increases the visibility and you reduce in number of pages as well.
2. Provide more information - Have a drop down for page numbers. If a reader is told that there are 10 pages to visit, some people might actually visit most of them or they can select randomly say page 5 and one click will take them to 5th page. If I want to do that now I will have to click 5 times the next button and wait for the pages to load. Most people will run out of patience and leave the site.
3. Directing to the post- You can have 2 buttons say "Read"(always enabled) and "Vote" (initially disabled buy enabled after 20-30 sec). Clicking on the "Read" button will open the post in a new tab. That way the user is forced to visit the post at least once and might read the post while waiting for the "vote" button to be enabled.
4. Utilization of the empty space - The space just under the top contributors remains empty. If you can make the top contributors column a row on top of the page (just under the categories) then you can use up that space to showcase the blog posts.
These are just my thoughts, I will be glad if the moderator team find them useful.
I would second @Sancita's #3 suggestion. At least, in 20 seconds a blogger gets a glimpse of the photographs n can scroll down through the page. And with the hope of the writer that he stumbles upon few catch lines. Or lines that are really impressive.
@Farida: No offence but we are not here for charity. A 32" LCD TV comes with a cost. And isn't available in the grey market for peanuts. You have to strict on your voting and do justice to yourself and other bloggers. If you do not have time, then suggest you to narrow down with few blogs each day. You reciprocate, so do I, and so does every other blogger. Turns up into a vicious circle. A good writer's blog goes down the drain and a person writing "Jack n Jill went up the hill" makes it to the top.
And eventually my time gets wasted reading a non-worthy blog that I could have spared for a good writer and voted/promoted for him/her!
In this rat race, the rat wins and Usain Bolt succumbs to injuries. :)
@Biswajeet I completely agree with you..I have seen posts in the 'Jiyo Life' contest which are not even related to the topic, and are sitting at the top..Why? because as you said the promotions are being traded...People just go and vote for everyone and even with a 30% reverse promotions, they are good to go..But if you see the perosn who would have voted for all the posts wudn't have commented on any of them.I have seen in contest declaration that Renie has suggested that decision of winner will be taken by voting and the comments on his post in the blog, thats a way forward for sure. But i would really appreciate that a unbiased judge is appointed who will just decide whether the post actually conforms with the theme of the contest.
And as for promotions validity, we can restrict the number of promotions per user in a day, if you will have only 5 votes in a day,may be you will use it more judiciously.
And i do like the idea of a promote widget below the blog post, rather than here in Indivine.
I shamefully admit that on a minority of occasions I have voted a post up without reading it. However, more recently I have made a concerted effort to read everything instead of voting based on just the summary.
I hereby pledge to read every post before voting for it. I will even suffer through reading mine own posts before posting:)
I agree with @Biswajeet regarding rat race.
I believe in
K.I.S.S - Keep It Straight and Simple
and Google's Work Policy: Be Good, Don't be Evil
Be Good. If you cannot, don't be evil
Integrating too many things in one page may make it too complex
Maybe an option of 'oldest posts' next to latest may help
Option to show more posts per page can be helpful too
Eventhough your intent is good, still it may harm more (to the system) in longer run. Voters may make a closed loop and if someones does not reciprocate with a vote, then he/she may stop voting to that particular blogger.
Imagine if everybody starts doing it.
I am sorry, I don't understand, are you calling me or my suggestions "evil"??? and why? Exactly what is evil here????
All my suggestions are quite simple to implement, rudimentary web programming, not rocket science. Contrary to what you think, the interface will become much simpler and user-friendly.
BTW, I don’t know if you are aware of the fact that Google may look very simple but it runs extremely complex algorithms underneath which is hidden from the user. Google keep it simple for the user doesn’t mean that the underlying implementation is simple.
I've around 5 posts in indivine. All of them have around 3-4 votes common. And most of the times i don't see the same number of visitors as the number of posts.
The no. of minutes you stay on the blog before you can vote, is a good idea. Am not too good in HTML, so i don't know if it can be done.
An easier, and an interim solution, could be that no one comes to know who's voted for the post. This is important as if people don't know who's voted for whom, they wont get the publicity. The owner of the post will not be obliged to vote or even visit the voters blog. The idea of indivine is to see if your post is good for the people, its not whether you can get more traffic by voting for other's posts.
Anonymity has its disadvantages in public forums, but in this case, according to me, it will be a boon.
People wont vote blindly, as there wont be any use for voting the post, apart from keeping it at the top, that is, but at least the problem of people voting to get more publicity might be resolved.
I like this idea too!
From my experience, as soon as you post a blog, you can rest assured you will get a few individuals 'voting' like clock work. Anonymous voting would be great here.
I fourth(:p) this idea. . It was sad to see some deserving posts just managing 15-20 "promotions" and some ****ty (or not so good) posts accumulating hundreds of promotions.. It disheartens a newbie.. He thinks that not talent, but PR matters here. Moderator please solve this problem ASAP! IndiVine will be a much better forum then!
@ Renie Sir : First of all the move to promote a post only after viewing it is a real treat !
I would like to second Ramchandra ji that the identity of the voters should not be revealed, unnecessary promotion and reciprocation will surely come to an end...and deserving posts will get the votes..
I read every blog post I vote for but people vote for my blog posts without reading it. This morning, I got two votes for this post: http://www.indiblogger.in/indipost.php?post=21349 of mine but my logger script says that I haven't received a single hit from anyone.
I have seen this happen for almost every blog post of mine. From the Indiblogger mails sent to me whenever a person promotes my blog post and the logs in my web server I know the users who promote my posts every time without even clicking on the link. However, it has never bothered me because it does no harm to me. But I do find it a little strange.
To prevent this thing from happening, I have the following suggestions that can make it easier for a user to promote the post while ensuring that the user at least opens the link.
- Make the 'promote' button open the blog in a frameset where the top frame has Indiblogger buttons to promote the post, to go back to Indiblogger, etc. and the lower frame displays the entire blog post. Something similar to a Google image search result page.
- I don't think imposing a certain time interval between clicking a post and promoting it is a good idea. Posts that have just a comic strip takes less than a minute to read. Now, preventing the user to promote it soon after reading the strip would only frustate him.
- Perhaps, the promote feature could require the promoter to write a short feedback enforced using a feedback form where he is required to explain in more than 30 words what he likes about the post and why he is promoting the post. The feedback can appear in the Indivine post page. A "report abuse" button can be added next to each feedback which can be used by other users to report if anyone seems to be promoting a post without even understanding what the post is about. Yeah, this is going to make it hard for people to promote posts. May not be such a good idea but an idea nevertheless.
- Anonymous voting idea by Ramchandra seems like a good idea to me. Now if a promoter wants somebody to know that he promoted his post, he would have to make it known to the blogger in an indirect way by leaving a comment in his blog and to do that he probably has to read the blog post as well.
i think @Ramchandra's suggestion of anonymous voting is a very good idea.