Are we too soft on corruption?

Aditya Jha
Aditya Jha
from New Delhi, India
6 years ago

The never ending topic of corruption has got many of us fed up and exhausted. We see everyone talking about corruption and yet there seems to be no change. 

Corrupt politicians continue to walk around freely and in fact with their heads held high they participate in elections and this is because our so called 'respected' and 'major' parties given them a ticket to contest election. 

Corruption has become a part of our life and all that, I'm not even gonna bother to go into that. What do you guys think about this? If we ask for a corruption free India, are we asking for too much? If not, what are the ways to tackle corruption?

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Vijay Prabhu
Vijay Prabhu
from Mumbai
6 years ago

We are too soft on everythingCool right from corruption to foreign affairs 

Fairy Princess
Fairy Princess
from Delhi
6 years ago

Corruption is a vicious circle of our society! Everybody loves to talk about it but nobody wants to do anything about it. Undecided

manas kansal
manas kansal
from hardwar
6 years ago

There is a old saying "charity starts at home". If every individual pledge that he/she will not indulge in corrupt practice and will do his best to tackle it then I believe we have eradicate corruption from INDIA 

CyberKID
CyberKID
from India
6 years ago

Yes we are, and that so, because we ourselves are corrupt. And unfortunately, no law is there to stop corrupt citizens. We frame laws for corrupt officials, bureaucrats, and such, but, there is no law for corrupt people.

TF Carthick
TF Carthick
from Bangalore
6 years ago

Our basic human society is founded on corruption. Here we have it dirty and in the open while in the US they use fancy names like lobbies, fund raising etc.

The basic corruption is property rights. Every human and animal should be born with equal rights to all the resources on this earth. But that is not the case. Some are born paupers while some are born with enough to live luxuriously and waste. It might be argued that they are enjoying the fruits of their ancestors' hardwork. Even if it is accepted, I am sure in at least half cases, it would be their ancestors' corruption and exploitation than hardwork. Even the Western countries living luxuriously today are living off the ill begoten wealth of colonial conquests.

Leaving historic corruption of nations against other nations and looking at local level, Norway was one of the countries where I observed a more or less fair society. Most people earn more or less the same amount and have similar standard of living, government takes care of all basic needs and people can't leave their property to their children. Government takes even the house after the person's demise. Only in such circumstances, corruption can truly be eleminated. Otherwise in most cases all this talk of eleminating corruption and all is mere hypocrisy. 

Vijay Prabhu
from Mumbai
6 years ago

I agree TF, till there is a incentive to be rich the easy way, corruption will stay whether in India or any other country

TechChumz
from Bangalore
6 years ago

I agree TF, though I don't have any time to read your essay, I agree if that helps Laughing

TF Carthick
from Bangalore
6 years ago

Appreciate your support, Rakhee - though would have loved it if you had written one of your trademark essays in support of me.

India can never become corruption free. If somehow it does, living in India would become extremely difficult

Vijay Prabhu
from Mumbai
6 years ago

boo hoo

Sweety Pateliya
Sweety Pateliya
from Nagpur
6 years ago
I don't agree that similar financial conditions can eliminate corruption. Infact I am against it. If everyone earns on a same level, the urge to earn more ( work hard) dies. The ones who work hard and deserve a better living will lose the zeal and the ones who don't would become even more lazy. After all what's the point. There will be no advancements, no inventions, no development. Living in a standstill environment is more difficult than living in a corrupted one.
Vijay Prabhu
from Mumbai
6 years ago

Sweety TF gave the example of Norway, infact all the nordic countries enjoy a very good standard of living with high per capita income, HNI and GINI.  The income tax rates in those countries are also highest in the world but people pay up because they get the best services from the govenment in return.  In fact I read once about a study being conducted in Sweden to study the pain a earthworm suffers when it is attached to a fish bait.  Wishful thinking that India too can achieve such high degree of humanity.  In India we ourselves are like earthworms and sardines packed in the trains and buses.

Vijay, true, very true. We see banana peel on railway platform and pass on as we saw nothing. One man had slipped and lost his leg for life. But we see nothing, hear nothing , say nothing, like the monkeys of gandhi ji. Infact we have politicized the word corruption as well and now some nuts are cashing in on it as well.
Gaurab
from New Delhi
6 years ago

I think people should be allowed to earn as much as they can/want but at the same time everyone should have the minimum finance/money available to live their life with dignity. There should not be so much disparity that some people can afford planes and helipads at their home while on the other hand people are dying not getting proper food and treatment.

Kapil Chauhan
Kapil Chauhan
from Ghaziabad
6 years ago

I agree with Sweety. A society cannot progress if it is not going to reward productivity, efficiency and meritocracy.

People should realize that a country has to be rich first (rich in money and resources or both, relative to their population) before becoming a welfare state like Nordic countries (famous for their 'cradle to grave' govt support) or Saudi Arabia (no taxes). You can only offer same (good)  benefits to each citizen of your society only if you have money to afford it.

Nordic countries also created an enabling environment for its business very early on. They are very liberal when it comes to business and govt does not interfere much, which reduces the chances of corruption. It is not surprising that countries where govt interference in business is less have higher ratings on transparency indices.

Very well said kapil
Vijay Prabhu
Vijay Prabhu
from Mumbai
6 years ago

Kapil I dont think India is a poor country.  We we all voluntarily give up the gold we have horded for generations, I think we did be at par with the US of A. 

Gaurab
Gaurab
from New Delhi
6 years ago

We have become mentally incapable to speak about the "wrongs" in society. Corruption is ruining our country. There is corruption in creative and intellectual field which is not even considered corruption.For example -

1. Record labels keep the rights of the songs with themselves, which actually belong to the writer/lyricist and the music composer/singer.

2. Movies are made taking inspiration from books and people and they are not even given a penny while the producers make millions out of it. Recent example - GULAAB GANG.

 

Kapil Chauhan
Kapil Chauhan
from Ghaziabad
6 years ago

@ Vijay - I did not mean we are a poor country, but we are also not rich enough to support welfare schemes like Nordic or Gulf countries.

@ Gaurab - Very true. We all are in this together (think about songs.pk and torrents)

Gaurab
Gaurab
from New Delhi
6 years ago

@kapil - That's true but I feel India has uneven distribution of money in society. We are not like US and UK that people can buy so many songs and movies. The corporates/music labels will earn millions even if they provide music for low costs. 

Take for example, moserbear has reduced video cd piracy a lot, people prefer buying the cheap cd's instead of the fake ones.

TF Carthick
TF Carthick
from Bangalore
6 years ago

My simple point is if your grandfather has stolen from my grandfather and today you are rich and I am poor, you can't come and lecture to me about honesty and stuff. If I have an opportunity to loot you, I will and I consider it absolutely fair.

I will only listen to you if you share your wealth with me, bring us to even footing and then talk of all this.

We talk of India not having wealth but do not even talk of taxing inheritance at a high rate far from seizing inherited wealth. In Norway, government takes away your home after your death. Nobody builds wealth for seven useless lazy generations like here.

Nandini Deka
from Bombay
6 years ago

i dont think the people in past who were rich looted...they were just smart and utilized the resources...how can they loot from people who didnt have anything anyways?

TF Carthick
from Bangalore
6 years ago

You mean like Zamindars were smart and utilized the bonded laborers?

Nandini Deka
from Bombay
6 years ago

all rich people were smartSmile only smart people become richCool

Nandini Deka
from Bombay
6 years ago

btw why norway people buy property if they are snatched away after death? they can rent all their lives right?

TF Carthick
from Bangalore
6 years ago

That is the point, Nandini - No one reals owns property. It is like a lifelong lease. So they enjoy as long as they live and depart in peace. Their children make their own wealth and enjoy it.

Gaurab
from New Delhi
6 years ago

I think inheritance should be taxed but more that the illegal inheritances of the kings & lords should be abolished. In the name of trusts all these rajas and rajkumaris have continued their lagacies and poor people are still suffering. 

The "lala ji's" and people who gave money on interest to poor people looted them and is still looting innicent people by charing them compound interests and double interests.

Kapil Chauhan
Kapil Chauhan
from Ghaziabad
6 years ago

@TF, your simple point, is the root of all the problems. You just justified the looting of your grandfather. So if someone's grandfather was a looter, he probably thought like you and then this goes on and on..

Nobody s going to share his/her wealth with you; you have to earn it. Your well being is not somebody else's responsibility. Grow up.

Why should govt seize inherit wealth. Do you mean to say that once if some industrialist dies (eg Dhirubai Ambani, Reliance), Anil and Mukesh should not inherit it, rather incumbent govt (congress, bjp etc.) should seize the wealth and then give it to politicians (Deora, Moily, A Raja and clan) to run it. Even when you have examples of how businesses have been run to the ground by our current govt.

Do you also mean to say my kids should not get my house if I die suddenly or due to old age. I mean individual will, freedom, liberties and choices does not mean anything (on the excuse of public welfare).

TF Carthick
TF Carthick
from Bangalore
6 years ago

Capitalism is not the solution to all problems. Capitalism is not real freedom in unequal world. In a world with gross unequlaity, complete free market does not necessarily promote meritrocracy or productivity. It rather favors the ones who already have capital over the ones who do not.

Theoretically, it is a good concept if we start with a level playing field for all. But that is not practically possible unless we have some bloody communist revolution or something. So in some ways China is going that way - levelling the field through communism and then establishing capitalism when playing field is level. Theoretically ideal situation. But I have read about corruption prevalent in China as well - do not know how true it is or what could be the reason.

India is over populated. No control there. Our country needs strong agenda. Not politics in everything.
Gaurab
from New Delhi
6 years ago

I think you are totally correct in your observations. capitalism is not the ideal solution and I have read some articles about the corruption in China as well. Corporates should have a free hand but at the same time there should be people centric policies and good labour laws.

The accountability of the organizations and people should be there, which is totally missing in our country. Except Shastri you can't find example of any other leader who left their ministry when any tragedy or corruption happend.

Another point is having transparent and powerful regulators. Like SEBI and proposed lokpal if election commision is also given power then the political parties could function better.

Kapil Chauhan
Kapil Chauhan
from Ghaziabad
6 years ago

Business should be left with businesspersons. Government should focus on governance and regulations. Instead of govt running steel industries, airlines, oil companies etc. it should let businesses operate them. Govt on the other hand should focus on ensuring fair play, strong penalty system for people who abuse the system and strict regulations.

In short, you cannot expect fair play when bowling/batting team and the umpire are from same team.

Capitalism is not the best solution, but it is a better option over socialism etc.

Gaurab
from New Delhi
6 years ago

Yes, Goverment should focus on governence but a regulated market is what is best for the country. Good regulatories will stop corruption and check fair play. I think airlines and railways could be better manitained by private sector but the natural resouces should only be given on lease. 

TF Carthick
from Bangalore
6 years ago

I am not at all in favor of government running industry - but definitely see a need for some mechanism for difference between super rich and poor to remain within reasonable limits and everyone getting somewhat reasonable opportunity to thrive through hard work, intelliegence and enterprise instead of too much advantage to some people due to their parents or grandparents hard work or looting. If that becomes the case, people begin to feel they can not reach the top through fair means in this unfair world and incentivizes them towards corruption.  

@the fool, gradfather's deeds can be no excuse for ideology of nations. One can burn in jealousy but their deeds they pay their price. I see many working hard and not getting enough but some doing less and getting more. Knowledge and enriching from it. Suppose i find a stone on the road and it happens to be a meteorite worth millions and i garner millions from it. It will have share of govt. in terms of taxes and all. Will it be termed looting. Our nation is suffering from shortsighted measures. My view is first control should be effective stern measures on population menace. I hope our politicians see how many mouths to feed will be there in india 10 tears down the line.
Nandini Deka
from Bombay
6 years ago

rio...i wholeheartedly agree with you...population is a big menace and that too with unwanted illegal migrants from places like bangladesh etc jumping borders and adding to our burden.

Assam is burning in illegal migrants issue. Our politicians arrange for their ration cards etc. for votes. A sad state of affairs. None is safe as we saw our senate attacked by terrorists.
Thanks ND,
Vijay Prabhu
Vijay Prabhu
from Mumbai
6 years ago

There are two types of courruption in India

1. Forced corruption : Where the giver is forced to comply > What we pay to escape challan at traffic signal

2. Voluntary corruption :  Where both giver and taker are equally happy > Government contracts

It is the second one that is cancerous to India

Nandini Deka
from Bombay
6 years ago

wat abt gas wala/post man demanding bakshish and threatening not to come up to deliver....no 3??

I feel before corruption other major issues should be addressed. Population control, education, securing border properly, illegitimate residents sent back. Proper vigyl to thwart terror attacks. India is the most unsafe place in the world regarding terrorist blasts.
Vijay Prabhu
from Mumbai
6 years ago

ND they come in no.1Undecided (forced)

Nandini Deka
from Bombay
6 years ago

you know when i was new in our bldg, once i asked our gas wala why he takes extra to come up, he anyways get salary to deliver the cylinder doesnt he --- my neighbour started criticising me that since everyone in bldg gave him the extra tip, i should also give....and now after so many years the gas wala has made it routine to demand the tip.

everything can be set straight only when we have the root in control. we harness the population explosion, then we can slowly set other thing also. the long lines will become smaller and the hurry to get things before others will diminish.

Gaurab
from New Delhi
6 years ago

I feel every kind of corruption is harmful. If one id cancer then the other is aids. ;) :)

Gaurab
Gaurab
from New Delhi
6 years ago

Three main types of corruption -

1.Large-scale corruption - Corruption of lakhs of crores which takes place between the government and corporates and between large industries. Here both parties are happy and gain something hence nobody complains.

2. Everyday corruption - Corruption in public offices and corruption faced by common man. From passport to getting your files passed everywhere it is prevalent. Here's complaints are filed.

3. Third and very important type of corruption in creative and intellectual field. Ex-

(a.) Record labels keep the rights of the songs with themselves, which actually belong to the writer/lyricist and the music composer/singer.

 (b.)Movies are made taking inspiration from books and people and they are not even given a penny while the producers make millions out of it. Recent example - GULAAB GANG.

 

Nandini Deka
from Bombay
6 years ago

3rd one audience take badla by downloading illegally

Gaurab
from New Delhi
6 years ago

@Nandini - It's a robin hood kind of a justice ;) :)

Kapil Chauhan
Kapil Chauhan
from Ghaziabad
6 years ago

People should realise that we all are corrupt in one way or the other. Agreed that some of the corruption exist because there are too many arcane rules to follow. But we are corrupt still.

If we download pirated movies, songs, softwares over the internet, we are being corrupt.

If we bribe a cop to avoid getting a challan over not wearing a seat belt or a helmet, it is we who are corrupt.

If we falsify our rent figures to claim max HRA benefit and to min taxes, we are being corrupt.

If we sell our vote for free saree, fan, TV, water, electricity, it is we who are being voluntarily corrupt. Understand this, a corrupt politician cannot get elected from a constituency with honest voters and vice versa. A minister is nothing but a representative of his/her constituency.

It is this kind of voluntary corruption, we can all check easily and control.

Vijay Prabhu
from Mumbai
6 years ago

hear hear

Nandini Deka
from Bombay
6 years ago

 no human being ever can be all goody goody....otherwise the world would be utopia

Vijay Prabhu
from Mumbai
6 years ago

Nihilist world Cool

TF Carthick
TF Carthick
from Bangalore
6 years ago

You are right, Rio. All these issues are interlinked and you can't solve just the corruption issue in isolation. What is needed is a holitic solution. Otherwise it will become a case of driving the devil out of the front door only to see him enter through the window. 

Thanks @the fool,

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