Are we too soft on corruption?
The never ending topic of corruption has got many of us fed up and exhausted. We see everyone talking about corruption and yet there seems to be no change.
Corrupt politicians continue to walk around freely and in fact with their heads held high they participate in elections and this is because our so called 'respected' and 'major' parties given them a ticket to contest election.
Corruption has become a part of our life and all that, I'm not even gonna bother to go into that. What do you guys think about this? If we ask for a corruption free India, are we asking for too much? If not, what are the ways to tackle corruption?
There is so much political talk going on and it's election season as well. I wonder why isn't any political party coming forward to organize an Indi-meet.
I think Congress Party already organized a BlogAdda meet.
@Rio - I think people should have an active participation in this. Who better than bloggers to put your point forward to.
@The Fool - That's nice. Finally they are taking some decisions 
What do you all think about the divide between "India" and "bharat" ? or you think there isn't any divide?
Rio, brother, when a govt insists on doling out benefits to people, and people start getting (or expecting) for free what they have not rightfully earned, there are strong chances for them (people) to become corrupt. That is what I am saying right from the beginning.
Everytime people seek a welfare state, they are creating conditions for some sly politicians to take advantage of it and introduce corruption in the system. You can pick any of your fav welfare scheme, and you'll find reports on corruption in it.
So, again, the problem is not how many kids a couple can have, but are their incentives in the system for them to focus elsewhere 
If a person has to raise his kids only on his salary (no benefits available) and he’s earning not enough to raise a large family, economics will force him to cut down his family size. Plus all those rules about child labour and education (which is the key reason we have govt: to maintain law and order) will act as strong deterrents to add kids to labour force.
I think people who consider population a problem should make a voluntary contribution to resolve it..
Like they say..charity begans at home..so..
What?? Condemn people who have 5 or 57 kids??
How many kids a couple wants to have, is their choice. It is not a state subject. It is not something for a state or society to bother.
At one point, people wants to reduce corruption and on the other they want govt to monitor their bedroom activities. Hilarious!!
Seriously man, how much part of your life you are going to spend by thinking what govt/society/others will decide for you?
For anyone who is bothered about our population should stop living in 90s, when TV and news used to blabber about 'population explosion'.
Since our economy has opened (even if partially), people got lot of opportunities and lot of these people have become assets for the country, rather than the liabilities they were considered earlier.
In a socialistic setup, where people think govt should take care of everyone (hand out benefits), population growth more than income growth will make the govt look down upon its own people (so many mouths to feed with lesser money).
Even the worst socialist politicians in India do not speak about population as liability now. Those days are long time gone.
lol...you dont consider population as a major problem?
I think you are little wrong here. Socialist setup actually deals with that. Socialist are the people whose priority is the society, in european countries you can even land in jail if you are taking to your wife or children loudly because in turn in your hampering the development of the society. These countries even monitor that are you sending your kids to school and are you even capable of raising them.
The socialist leaders in our country who are ruling for last two decades think that giving free laptops and loan waivers are the right approach but they are not they have failed to setup the system. Society=system. system to educate, grow, earn and live freely.
Great to see some terrific discussion taking place. While we're on this subject, what do you all think about the LokPal bill? Is it enough to pass it in the pariliament and implement it, will it be enough to 'remove' corruption? One has to understand that corruption isn't some flew that got created in a day and will end in a day, it will gradually take time for it to be totally demolished/crushed. We cannot become a corruption free nation in 1 day regardless of what movies show. :p
Being realistic is important. LokPal, agreed is a good step forward but we need to think about other ways too. In every field, the ever so growing demand of accepting bribe is just not ending. From government offices to giving donations to educational boards, the tendency of being corrupt is increasing and the solutions are frankly many but very few people are ready to implement them i.e. the people with the power to implement these changes.
You are right, Rio. All these issues are interlinked and you can't solve just the corruption issue in isolation. What is needed is a holitic solution. Otherwise it will become a case of driving the devil out of the front door only to see him enter through the window.
People should realise that we all are corrupt in one way or the other. Agreed that some of the corruption exist because there are too many arcane rules to follow. But we are corrupt still.
If we download pirated movies, songs, softwares over the internet, we are being corrupt.
If we bribe a cop to avoid getting a challan over not wearing a seat belt or a helmet, it is we who are corrupt.
If we falsify our rent figures to claim max HRA benefit and to min taxes, we are being corrupt.
If we sell our vote for free saree, fan, TV, water, electricity, it is we who are being voluntarily corrupt. Understand this, a corrupt politician cannot get elected from a constituency with honest voters and vice versa. A minister is nothing but a representative of his/her constituency.
It is this kind of voluntary corruption, we can all check easily and control.
hear hear
no human being ever can be all goody goody....otherwise the world would be utopia
Nihilist world 
Three main types of corruption -
1.Large-scale corruption - Corruption of lakhs of crores which takes place between the government and corporates and between large industries. Here both parties are happy and gain something hence nobody complains.
2. Everyday corruption - Corruption in public offices and corruption faced by common man. From passport to getting your files passed everywhere it is prevalent. Here's complaints are filed.
3. Third and very important type of corruption in creative and intellectual field. Ex-
(a.) Record labels keep the rights of the songs with themselves, which actually belong to the writer/lyricist and the music composer/singer.
(b.)Movies are made taking inspiration from books and people and they are not even given a penny while the producers make millions out of it. Recent example - GULAAB GANG.
3rd one audience take badla by downloading illegally
There are two types of courruption in India
1. Forced corruption : Where the giver is forced to comply > What we pay to escape challan at traffic signal
2. Voluntary corruption : Where both giver and taker are equally happy > Government contracts
It is the second one that is cancerous to India
wat abt gas wala/post man demanding bakshish and threatening not to come up to deliver....no 3??
ND they come in no.1
(forced)
you know when i was new in our bldg, once i asked our gas wala why he takes extra to come up, he anyways get salary to deliver the cylinder doesnt he --- my neighbour started criticising me that since everyone in bldg gave him the extra tip, i should also give....and now after so many years the gas wala has made it routine to demand the tip.
everything can be set straight only when we have the root in control. we harness the population explosion, then we can slowly set other thing also. the long lines will become smaller and the hurry to get things before others will diminish.
I feel every kind of corruption is harmful. If one id cancer then the other is aids. ;) :)
Business should be left with businesspersons. Government should focus on governance and regulations. Instead of govt running steel industries, airlines, oil companies etc. it should let businesses operate them. Govt on the other hand should focus on ensuring fair play, strong penalty system for people who abuse the system and strict regulations.
In short, you cannot expect fair play when bowling/batting team and the umpire are from same team.
Capitalism is not the best solution, but it is a better option over socialism etc.
Yes, Goverment should focus on governence but a regulated market is what is best for the country. Good regulatories will stop corruption and check fair play. I think airlines and railways could be better manitained by private sector but the natural resouces should only be given on lease.
I am not at all in favor of government running industry - but definitely see a need for some mechanism for difference between super rich and poor to remain within reasonable limits and everyone getting somewhat reasonable opportunity to thrive through hard work, intelliegence and enterprise instead of too much advantage to some people due to their parents or grandparents hard work or looting. If that becomes the case, people begin to feel they can not reach the top through fair means in this unfair world and incentivizes them towards corruption.
rio...i wholeheartedly agree with you...population is a big menace and that too with unwanted illegal migrants from places like bangladesh etc jumping borders and adding to our burden.
Capitalism is not the solution to all problems. Capitalism is not real freedom in unequal world. In a world with gross unequlaity, complete free market does not necessarily promote meritrocracy or productivity. It rather favors the ones who already have capital over the ones who do not.
Theoretically, it is a good concept if we start with a level playing field for all. But that is not practically possible unless we have some bloody communist revolution or something. So in some ways China is going that way - levelling the field through communism and then establishing capitalism when playing field is level. Theoretically ideal situation. But I have read about corruption prevalent in China as well - do not know how true it is or what could be the reason.
I think you are totally correct in your observations. capitalism is not the ideal solution and I have read some articles about the corruption in China as well. Corporates should have a free hand but at the same time there should be people centric policies and good labour laws.
The accountability of the organizations and people should be there, which is totally missing in our country. Except Shastri you can't find example of any other leader who left their ministry when any tragedy or corruption happend.
Another point is having transparent and powerful regulators. Like SEBI and proposed lokpal if election commision is also given power then the political parties could function better.
@TF, your simple point, is the root of all the problems. You just justified the looting of your grandfather. So if someone's grandfather was a looter, he probably thought like you and then this goes on and on..
Nobody s going to share his/her wealth with you; you have to earn it. Your well being is not somebody else's responsibility. Grow up.
Why should govt seize inherit wealth. Do you mean to say that once if some industrialist dies (eg Dhirubai Ambani, Reliance), Anil and Mukesh should not inherit it, rather incumbent govt (congress, bjp etc.) should seize the wealth and then give it to politicians (Deora, Moily, A Raja and clan) to run it. Even when you have examples of how businesses have been run to the ground by our current govt.
Do you also mean to say my kids should not get my house if I die suddenly or due to old age. I mean individual will, freedom, liberties and choices does not mean anything (on the excuse of public welfare).
My simple point is if your grandfather has stolen from my grandfather and today you are rich and I am poor, you can't come and lecture to me about honesty and stuff. If I have an opportunity to loot you, I will and I consider it absolutely fair.
I will only listen to you if you share your wealth with me, bring us to even footing and then talk of all this.
We talk of India not having wealth but do not even talk of taxing inheritance at a high rate far from seizing inherited wealth. In Norway, government takes away your home after your death. Nobody builds wealth for seven useless lazy generations like here.
i dont think the people in past who were rich looted...they were just smart and utilized the resources...how can they loot from people who didnt have anything anyways?
You mean like Zamindars were smart and utilized the bonded laborers?
all rich people were smart
only smart people become rich
btw why norway people buy property if they are snatched away after death? they can rent all their lives right?
That is the point, Nandini - No one reals owns property. It is like a lifelong lease. So they enjoy as long as they live and depart in peace. Their children make their own wealth and enjoy it.
I think inheritance should be taxed but more that the illegal inheritances of the kings & lords should be abolished. In the name of trusts all these rajas and rajkumaris have continued their lagacies and poor people are still suffering.
The "lala ji's" and people who gave money on interest to poor people looted them and is still looting innicent people by charing them compound interests and double interests.
@kapil - That's true but I feel India has uneven distribution of money in society. We are not like US and UK that people can buy so many songs and movies. The corporates/music labels will earn millions even if they provide music for low costs.
Take for example, moserbear has reduced video cd piracy a lot, people prefer buying the cheap cd's instead of the fake ones.
@ Vijay - I did not mean we are a poor country, but we are also not rich enough to support welfare schemes like Nordic or Gulf countries.
@ Gaurab - Very true. We all are in this together (think about songs.pk and torrents)
We have become mentally incapable to speak about the "wrongs" in society. Corruption is ruining our country. There is corruption in creative and intellectual field which is not even considered corruption.For example -
1. Record labels keep the rights of the songs with themselves, which actually belong to the writer/lyricist and the music composer/singer.
2. Movies are made taking inspiration from books and people and they are not even given a penny while the producers make millions out of it. Recent example - GULAAB GANG.
Kapil I dont think India is a poor country. We we all voluntarily give up the gold we have horded for generations, I think we did be at par with the US of A.
I agree with Sweety. A society cannot progress if it is not going to reward productivity, efficiency and meritocracy.
People should realize that a country has to be rich first (rich in money and resources or both, relative to their population) before becoming a welfare state like Nordic countries (famous for their 'cradle to grave' govt support) or Saudi Arabia (no taxes). You can only offer same (good) benefits to each citizen of your society only if you have money to afford it.
Nordic countries also created an enabling environment for its business very early on. They are very liberal when it comes to business and govt does not interfere much, which reduces the chances of corruption. It is not surprising that countries where govt interference in business is less have higher ratings on transparency indices.
Sweety TF gave the example of Norway, infact all the nordic countries enjoy a very good standard of living with high per capita income, HNI and GINI. The income tax rates in those countries are also highest in the world but people pay up because they get the best services from the govenment in return. In fact I read once about a study being conducted in Sweden to study the pain a earthworm suffers when it is attached to a fish bait. Wishful thinking that India too can achieve such high degree of humanity. In India we ourselves are like earthworms and sardines packed in the trains and buses.
I think people should be allowed to earn as much as they can/want but at the same time everyone should have the minimum finance/money available to live their life with dignity. There should not be so much disparity that some people can afford planes and helipads at their home while on the other hand people are dying not getting proper food and treatment.
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